Post a reply

Avatar for chukar
Mar 2, 2019 10:52 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
I love to grow tomatoes and have for many years. I am far from a master gardener. Most of my gardening education was preteen from Mom and from bumps and bruises along the way.
In recent years my main interest has shifted to heirlooms which from year to year even with rotation etc the success of which has varied.
I recently heard about the grafting of tomatoes so with lots of time (retired) and little money ($40+- for 70 seeds/25 clips) to burn I decided to try it.
I am at the front end of this project. I will try to detail here my procedures, successes and failures.
I am hoping others who have previously grafted tomatoes at home will chime in with their experiences and offer some guidance.
Please see treads "Grafted Tomatoes" and "Observations on my grafted Tomato….." for more on this subject, good links and my previous posts.
Here is a good overview; a paper from Purdue University:

https://extension.purdue.edu/e...
Avatar for chukar
Mar 2, 2019 11:11 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
I started this project by buying Submarine and Estamino rootstock seeds from Territorial Seeds and a bunch of Heirloom seeds from Victory Seeds.

Thumb of 2019-03-02/chukar/db94fd

I then planted six each of all the rootstocks and heirlooms.
One problem I am having is that the diameter of the scion and rootstock must be the same for the top graft to be successful (I have read). You would think starting the rootstock and scion seeds at the same time would achieve this but no. I find that the rootstock (especially the Estamino) is slower to germinate and grow than the heirlooms. For this reason I am now starting a few seeds of scions and rootstocks every few days to have better matches on future top grafts. I am also going to try some cleft grafts which I dont think need to match as exactly.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 2, 2019 11:19 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Here are some grafts I did about ten days ago just to experiment.
I did these top grafts with some old seeds i had had for years. I used super sweet 100s as the rootstock and grafted one ss 100 to itself (small one in front) and used brandywine for the other three scions on the SS 100 rootstocks. I used a clear party cup here for the "healing chamber". They appear to be alive but are way behind the other brandywine in the adjacent pot they came from. I am also noticing that a couple scions are growing root shoots (called advantageous roots)but don't seem to be attaching to the rootstock so well. I am removing the scion roots as I see them.

Thumb of 2019-03-02/chukar/c46971
Avatar for chukar
Mar 2, 2019 11:49 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
The pictures are of 7 varietes of heirlooms (Victory Seeds) I top grafted to the 2 rootstock varieties between 3 and 5 days ago. All are in 4" pots with Coco Loco. Since I don't have a healing chamber I am putting grafts on a 78 degree mat with misted party cups over them(perfect fit). Just doing a few now in case there are problems.

Thumb of 2019-03-02/chukar/08b19d


Thumb of 2019-03-02/chukar/f6c5d3
Thumb of 2019-03-02/chukar/845ba6

Probably the only true test is to start scion and non-grafted side by side and follow progress to fruiting. I also transplanted 7 non-grafted heirlooms for that purpose(not in pictures). (CarolynScott gave me idea thru her posts).
I see the grafted to be at a big disadvantage as they have to first survive the graft and then must be planted with the graft above the soil (I plan to plant the non-grafted normally-in a trench).....if I can get some grafts to take I hope to see what happens.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 3, 2019 7:45 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Update:
The first graft of a Super Sweet 100 scion to a SS 100 rootstock appears to have taken!
An advantageous root stuck in the clip will be cut later.

Thumb of 2019-03-04/chukar/d64fca
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 3, 2019 8:20 PM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
chukar, I will be watching this to follow your progress. They look good so far. I have been looking at grafting tomatoes and pepper plants. I'm just amazed at small they are grafted using this technique.

Good luck to you. And by the way. Good work and good eyes.
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 4, 2019 8:27 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Nice to see someone else interested!
Here are pics of my first 3 grafts to Estamino rootstocks. The scions are a Cherokee Purple, Kellogs Breakfast and Brandywine-all from Victory Seeds. These were grafted a week ago. The Brandywine and Cherokee Purple look pretty good but I think I see a gap between the cuts on the Estamino and the Kellogs Breakfast and advantageous roots are visible.
I took the party cups off for a couple hours yesterday but they started wilting so put them back on and they recovered.
Thumb of 2019-03-04/chukar/ae06bb
Thumb of 2019-03-04/chukar/b65ba2
Thumb of 2019-03-04/chukar/76b0dd
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 4, 2019 9:21 AM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
I see what you mean about the gaps. But they are connected at least partially or the top would wilt even when covered. Tilting the cup to allow minimal air flow or putting a couple of small holes in them can help ease the plants into the hardening off process.

I hope they all survive and are strong enough to support themselves. Only time will tell. But like anything. You will get better at it each time you do it.
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 5, 2019 8:03 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Bad news on the original experimental grafts. Three of the four scions did not graft to the rootstock but instead sent out advantageous roots right past the rootstock and into the dirt. The fourth one might be taking....Will check the other grafts later.

Thumb of 2019-03-05/chukar/9565fb
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 5, 2019 3:44 PM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
Thats too bad. But some of them looked like they were heading in that direction. Hopefully the last one makes it. This grafting method requires a steady hand and sharp vision and practice.

Side Note; I have seen videos of people growing out rootstocks and rooting their suckers to graft too. They also grow out one of each variety they want to grow. And use their suckers for the scions. That way you always have plenty of grafting materials to practice with. The drawback is that it takes up more space. The positives are that you can practice doing a grafting procedure that is much more reliable.
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 5, 2019 4:51 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
thisisme2 said:Thats too bad. But some of them looked like they were heading in that direction. Hopefully the last one makes it. This grafting method requires a steady hand and sharp vision and practice.

Side Note; I have seen videos of people growing out rootstocks and rooting their suckers to graft too. They also grow out one of each variety they want to grow. And use their suckers for the scions. That way you always have plenty of grafting materials to practice with. The drawback is that it takes up more space. The positives are that you can practice doing a grafting procedure that is much more reliable.


Great Idea!
I had not of thought of growing out and taking clones. I may have to try that. I dont have the best eyes and a larger diameter may be easier to put together.
I am cloning the rootstocks I chop off with about 50% taking.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 6, 2019 7:42 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Update
Down to two grafts still holding on.
Pictures are of Large Lucky Red and Polish scions grafted to Submarine Rootstocks alongside of ungrafted of the same varieties which were transplanted on the graft day to track progress of grafted vs ungrafted.
These are not out of the woods yet but have outlasted my other attempts.
Note: I don't know if the Estamino rootstock seeds I got were old or if they are just the hardest tomatoes I have ever grown They damp off more than any variety I have seen and have super slow and weak growth. Out of several six packs I have started I see about 75% germination and half that do germinate are weak or damp off (other multiple varieties growing alongside have 95% success).

Thumb of 2019-03-06/chukar/29e5c7


Thumb of 2019-03-06/chukar/6459de
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 7, 2019 11:41 PM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
Your soil mix looks really coarse to me. especially for tomatoes. Are you using bottom heat? For none grafts. At this stage they normally would be out of their humidity domes. I usually don't lose any plants due to damping off.

I use Espoma SS16 16-Quart Organic Seed Starter Premium Potting Mix. I have been using it for many years.
If you go to the Amazon link. My review has the second most number of Helpful votes with 82. I am R. Wells. The stuff is not cheap. But it is the best I have found.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046VHU1G/
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 8, 2019 7:50 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Hey Ron
That looks like a great seed starter!
I use Coco Loco with some perlite mixed in and have had good luck with all veggies except the Estamino rootstock. Maybe I am just lucky or maybe its the dry climate here but I have never had damp off on a tomato seedling until these Estamino.I plant 1 seed per cell and usally get 6 out of six to come up with all other tomatoes.
Update:
The Lucky Red and Cherokee Purple grafts are on their second day now with the lids off and hopefully are getting out of the woods. Shown here in front of their ungrafted counterparts.


Thumb of 2019-03-08/chukar/faaf39

I also moved most of my plants to the greenhouse yestetday and did 3 more heirloom to Submarine grafts out there.
These are larger than the other seedlings were when grafted and it was much easier to see what I was doing.


Thumb of 2019-03-08/chukar/254f62
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 8, 2019 4:05 PM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
Time will tell but I'm hoping your success ratio increases with the more recent batch. As far a soil mix goes. I think people should use whatever works for them. No need to fix anything that's not broken.
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Avatar for chukar
Mar 22, 2019 1:49 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jim
Dayton Nevada (Zone 7a)
Greenhouse
Update
Took the clips off the grafted Polish and Large Lucky Red yesterday. You can see the graft if you zoom in. The picture shows them in front of their non-grafted counterparts of the same age. IF they catch up it is going to be awhile.
Notes:
I think I was doing the first grafts when the seedlings were too small which made it difficult to see well enough to line up the cuts. When the cuts do not match advantageous roots develop instead of the graft uniting (IMO).

Thumb of 2019-03-22/chukar/028c4a

I did these 3 grafts 5 days ago with larger seedlings and all seem to be doing well with no advantageous roots showing yet.




Thumb of 2019-03-22/chukar/98ceb0
Avatar for thisisme2
Mar 22, 2019 6:47 PM CST
Name: THISISME W
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona
Chukar, It will be interesting to see how those fist two grow out. The newer three look much better. The middle one and the one on the right match up very well. nodding
One has to do more than just read. They have to investigate and think for themselves.
Image
Apr 25, 2019 8:37 PM CST
Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Bulbs Winter Sowing Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Peonies Lilies Charter ATP Member
Region: Canadian Enjoys or suffers cold winters Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level
I had intended to try grafting tomatoes.
THe Estamino did not germinate or grow all that fast.
SOme of the scion plants are too large already.
I might try this weekend.
My other root stock was Celebrity, but the seeds were old and did not get good germination. MIght have two or three that I can try.
I am making a humidity chamber out of a tray and a nano box cover.
I will cover it with a dark towel or blanket to reduce light....if I manage any grafts.
Image
May 2, 2019 8:15 AM CST
Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Bulbs Winter Sowing Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Peonies Lilies Charter ATP Member
Region: Canadian Enjoys or suffers cold winters Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level
My attempts have been a failure!
WIlted in humidity chamber although I could not maintain a higher temperature.
MIght try again with more mature seedlings ?
TOo many birthdays here and eye sight not good and shaky dexterity make this project not great for me !
Image
May 2, 2019 8:27 AM CST
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Annuals Enjoys or suffers cold winters Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Plays in the sandbox
Tender Perennials Tomato Heads The WITWIT Badge Region: Utah Vegetable Grower Hybridizer
I bought a grafted Sun Sugar at a local nursery. Had one last year and the production was amazing. Don't trust myself to graft my own.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah

Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.
  • Started by: chukar
  • Replies: 22, views: 3,562
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by Murky and is called "Moonflower and Spanish Flag"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.