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Avatar for Rose333999
Jun 22, 2020 2:52 PM CST
Thread OP
Chicago, Illinois
I repotted my draecena for the 1st time on Wednesday, June 17th. I moistened the root ball and tickled out as much old soil as possible without damaging the roots, especially the fine ones. When I heard roots tearing while tickling out old soil I stopped. I saw that the larger roots encircling the remaining soil were not smelly or discolored. Didn't have to cut any away as recommended on tutorials online.
Thinking I was doing fine I continued repotting. Put the moist ball with remaining old soil into new oxygen core pot with new, customized potting mix. The mix is coarse with mostly large particulates: coarse vermiculite, large chunks of Monterey Pine Bark, chunky peat moss, medium granite chips, Turface MVP, kanuma, and some Alaskan humus.
It all sounds good but after more research I think I made some serious mistakes that might require a second repotting. If you can help, I'd seriously appreciate your reply.
ISSUES:
1. Should I have opened the encircling roots and torn away the core of old soil?
Should I have butchered the encircling roots off? I saw some videos that did this with Boston Ferns and now I'm worried I didn't prune the roots, resulting in eventual plant death. OMG.
2. The old, original mix is from the nursery that the plant came from. It is much finer than the new mix I'm now using. I'M WORRIED THAT THE NEW MIX WILL DRY FASTER THAN THE ROOT BALL; overwatering or underwatering issues! The new mix is already dry and today is Monday, June 22nd. I'm pretty sure the old mix is probably still moist. In other words, the root ball. And we all know draecenas don't tolerate overwatering. That's why I got the customized mix and the oxygen core pot (which is superb for aeration and drainage. I got it and the mix from repotme.com).
So! I can't figure out which is better: leave it alone, or, repot it to save it from mistakes that will kill it, eventually, anyway. Gaaaaa! Your response will be deeply appreciated by me and very thoughtfully considered. God bless, and thank you.

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Jun 23, 2020 8:09 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Welcome! Oxygen core pots and the potting mix you used are better suited for Orchids, not Dracaenas. While it is true that Dracaenas don't like to be overwatered, unlike Orchids they are not epiphytes and they do need to have moist soil around their roots.

If you indeed left most of the original rootball intact, then you should be able to undo the repotting that you did without disturbing the roots much more. Do your best to gently remove the potting mix you added and put the Dracaena back into its original pot or one of similar size. If there are any spaces that need to be filled with soil, use a standard potting mix.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Rose333999
Jun 23, 2020 10:41 AM CST
Thread OP
Chicago, Illinois
Hi Will! Hurray! Thank you for your reply! Thank You! I love the little emojis.
So! Should I prune the roots prior to repotting?
Also, in the tutorials I read I saw that pine bark, vermiculite, turface (water retention stuff), kanuma (for mild acidity that Dracenas need), chunky peat moss (water retention again), and the other large particulates (drainage and aeration), plus the rich Alaskan humus (organic loam-like nutrient source) are all excellent for Dracenas! The mix was blended by me, customized, and not blended for orchids. I'm not sure I should trash it for heavy potting soil that aerates poorly and promotes standing water within the pot!
What should I fertilize her with?
I found a ladybug in the cilantro I was cleaning for a garnish and put her on my plant! Maybe I should go downstairs and put her in the garden.
Please respond, Dear Will, and thanks again!
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I'm all ears!
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Jun 23, 2020 1:51 PM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
I am often disgusted by the range of bad information that is posted online and shown in YouTube tutorials. Dracaenas are grown regularly in nurseries and in standard potting mixes, not that strange combo that you found. A standard potting mix for most indoor plants will have perlite mixed in to provide proper aeration. Standing water in a pot only occurs when the pot has no drain holes. Such pots should not be used regardless of the potting mix.

No, don't prune the roots! Leave the roots as undisturbed as possible. I am suggesting that you get back to where you started by undoing what you did by simply removing that potting mix. After removing that soil, put the original rootball that you left intact back into its original pot. I did not need a larger pot in the first place.

Fertilizer should only be used with healthy plants that are growing vigorously. It is not medicine for ailing plants.

I'm sorry you have been poorly advised elsewhere. It is a common problem.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Rose333999
Jun 23, 2020 5:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Chicago, Illinois
Hi Will! Thank You! Thanks for the reply!
A perlite soil mix isn't recommended for draecena; draecena HATES Flouride! That's why I chose vermiculite. Perlite has flouride in it. I did good, Will. I also use spring water, not tap water, when she's thirsty for the same reason: draecena hates flouride.
My plant DID need a repot, Will; the roots were coming out of the bottom of the original pot. And, the root ball itself is webbed in large, encircling roots. Very obvious signs that my plant needed a new, bigger pot. I'm astonished you said otherwise, honestly. And I'm surprised you didn't know how bad perlite is for draecena. So, my eye is skeptical about what you've written, despite what you said about bad info online. What I've mentioned is pretty obviously basic. I'm sorry, Will. I don't mean to embarrass you in this forum.
Standing water is due to poor drainage; you are correct about pots without holes being part of the problem. Fortunately, my old pot had holes! And my new one is engineered for drainage and aeration. Grin
Standing water is also attributed to the particulate size of the potting mix. If my pot has drainage holes and a heavy potting soil, I will eventually have problems with standing water. Especially for a plant like draecena.
I'm more worried about the old mix than the new. And I'm worried I've hurt your feelings, too. But Will! I had to say something to the errors you posted about perlite, the reasons for standing water, and address the fact that my plant needed a repot; other people will read this and they need to see clean, clear facts.
I'm so very sorry I've hurt your pride, Will. I really am.
PS. My plant is healthy enough for fertilizer. Two weeks to a month after this repot I'll choose something good for her. Thanks, anyway.
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Jun 23, 2020 9:43 PM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
Japanese Maples Deer Tropicals Seed Starter Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: Michigan
Houseplants Foliage Fan Dog Lover Container Gardener Birds Wild Plant Hunter
Hi, Rose. Water retention in substrates is indeed driven primarily by particle size and the internal porosity of individual soil particles. It's not uncommon for commercially prepared potting media to hold 3-6" (sometimes more) of perched water. Water is attracted to itself (cohesion) and to other objects like pot walls and soil particles (adhesion). The smaller soil particles are, the more surface area there is, collectively. As the total surface area of particles increases, so does the force of adhesion. The sum of the forces of water sticking to itself and to soil particles can be stronger than the force of gravity. Perched water is water that occupies the spaces between soil particles that, if the particles were larger, might be filled with air. It occurs when the substrate holds water that resists moving downward when acted on by gravity alone. A substrate capable of supporting 4" of perched water will support that much water in ANY container, even if it has 20 holes in the bottom and has an unusual shape. If your container happens to be 4" deep - too bad for you, the soil would be 100% saturated after a thorough watering.
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You're right about dracaena being intolerant of fluoride, too; although a thorough flushing of the perlite before adding it to the substrate goes a long way toward elimination of toxic effects. Keep in mind that fluoride is accumulative but not mobile in tissues, so once in the plant, it's there until the organ is shed or the plant loses viability. Unfortunately, fluoride does not gas off if left to rest in an open container, so it's best to use some form of low ion or deionized water. I have a small 75 gallon/day reverse osmosis filtration system which produces water with 0 dissolved solids. It's cost was about $200 and it took about a half hr to set up. I use it for all our drinking water, too.

"1. Should I have opened the encircling roots and torn away the core of old soil?
Should I have butchered the encircling roots off? I saw some videos that did this with Boston Ferns and now I'm worried I didn't prune the roots, resulting in eventual plant death. OMG.


I've repotted literally thousands of plants with woody or fibrous root systems. Very few are not bare-rooted. Sequence:
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Water moves poorly in pots filled with 2 different substrates. It tends to be held tightly in the fraction of the substrate with fine particles and resist moving into the fraction with better aeration, resulting in uneven moisture levels in the pot, which can be stressful for the plant.

"2. The old, original mix is from the nursery that the plant came from. It is much finer than the new mix I'm now using. I'M WORRIED THAT THE NEW MIX WILL DRY FASTER THAN THE ROOT BALL; overwatering or underwatering issues! The new mix is already dry and today is Monday, June 22nd. I'm pretty sure the old mix is probably still moist. In other words, the root ball. And we all know draecenas don't tolerate overwatering. That's why I got the customized mix and the oxygen core pot (which is superb for aeration and drainage. I got it and the mix from repotme.com)."

I was answering you line by line and already answered this question just above.

So! I can't figure out which is better: leave it alone, or, repot it to save it from mistakes that will kill it, eventually, anyway. Gaaaaa! Your response will be deeply appreciated by me and very thoughtfully considered.

I'd repot it. Repotting almost all tropicals is best undertaken when plants have good energy reserves and their photosynthesizing ability is peaking. Since that occurs every year at the summer solstice, you couldn't pick a better time to repot. Repotting differs from potting up. Habitually potting up soon causes the center of the root mass to become horribly congested. If the plant has been left in the pot long enough for the root/soil mass to be lifted from the pot intact, root congestion is already limiting your plant. It cannot be corrected, even if the plant was moved out into the landscape, unless someone's hands get into the middle of the root mass to correct the congestion. Potting up ensures continuing limitations, repotting ensures all limitations related to root congestion are eliminated. I've had people bring me ficus to work on that they claim are 20-30 years old, but don't have trunks as thick as my wrist. I have ficus that are 10 years old with trunks 6" thick.
Because plants are organisms that shed parts they are not able to support (leaves, branches, roots, ...) root congestion can limit more than 100% of a plant's growth potential. That sounds impossible, but, when growth stalls and shedding is taking place because the congested roots cannot support the top, isn't the plant going backward. Keep in mind, the measure of growth is not measured by how much the branches extend or thicken, it's a measure of the plants living dry weight.
I hope you found that helpful and a little more in tune with what I can see you already know.
Best luck.
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Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
Avatar for Rose333999
Jun 24, 2020 8:08 AM CST
Thread OP
Chicago, Illinois
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Thank You!
Hi Al! And thank you for the run down on substrates, perched water, and roots! I appreciate your tutorial pics on pruning, too. The visual aid is just what I needed. Also, the seedling in the acorn is just gorgeous. Love it.
Today will be busier than planned due to repotting my draecena. Thanks for the nudge; intuitively, I feared both the difference in the mixes, and, the lack of pruning.
Plants remind me of children:
They are innocent.
They are beautiful.
They are entirely dependent.
So, it is with great care that I consider all the information that is out there before I parent my plant. Especially when it comes to basics.
Thank you for assisting my learning curve. I appreciate you.
PS. I took the ladybug outside yesterday. My plant doesn't have pests, and Ms. Ladybug deserves a full life in the great outdoors. Just sayin'. Have an AWESOME day.
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Jun 24, 2020 10:08 AM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
Japanese Maples Deer Tropicals Seed Starter Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: Michigan
Houseplants Foliage Fan Dog Lover Container Gardener Birds Wild Plant Hunter
I often suggest considering our only job as growers is to identify what cultural condition(s) is/are limiting our green friends and to the greatest degree possible, eliminate the limitations. The better we become at that, the more it benefits our plants. Root congestion beyond a certain point (about the point in time where the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact) is always limiting. If you have the wherewithal to eliminate root congestion by fully repotting a plant, which includes bare-rooting, root pruning, and a change of soil (and hopefully the soil holds very little excess water), it makes little sense not to eliminate the limitation. Most hobby growers harbor an almost inherent belief roots are relatively untouchable, and surely the plant must die if you treat them indelicately. That is very far from true. I'll provide a couple of additional image sequences to illustrate just how far I go when I prune.
Acer palmatum:
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An aside: Did you note the wire around the base of the tree. It had an ugly root system so I layered off the top just above the old roots. The wire was removed before the plant was repotted.
Ficus benjamina "Too Little"
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Most growers intuitively recognize a healthy root system when they see one. These plants definitely have healthy root systems with a heavy emphasis on fine roots, which do all the plant's heavy lifting. Consistently removing large roots that do little more than take up space, results in a substrate full of very productive roots:

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Notice the substrate these plants are in, too:

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This medium holds no perched water, so the plant realizes much more of its genetic potential by not having to go through the incessant death and regeneration of roots other plants in water-retentive substrates suffer.


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Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
Last edited by tapla Jun 24, 2020 10:12 AM Icon for preview
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