I suggested the Wallyworld 48" LED shop lights for starting seedlings but I'm beginning to wonder about that. There may not be any problem, but...

I've used a mixed of florescent and LED 48" shop lights over the last few years. The florescents have been a mix of T12 and T8 tubes. The first LEDs were individual plastic, opaque tubes that replaced florescent tubes in a regular ballasted light fixture. The next LED was the current model that Walmart cells that has clear plastic "half" covers over a LED strip with the LEDs spaced maybe an 1-1/2"(?) apart. These worked well and produced lots of nice healthy seedlings.

The florescent was needing a tube replacement and the older plastic-tubed LED had grown dim. The newer LED-strip fixture was substantially brighter than the other two so I decided this would be the season I get all the fixtures alike so purchased two more of the LED-strip fixtures. Looks good and very bright. The LEDs are recessed about 1-1/2" from the edge of the hood so it's difficult to get the seedlings really any closer to the lights than that. Meh, the lights are bright so maybe that's no biggie...I really believe they may produce more lumens than the stated 5000.

But, the not-so-close proximity of the lights to the seedlings isn't my biggest concern. What has got my attention is the heat beneath the lights. I tinkered with the thermometers that I have on hand and the temperature readings I'm getting seem high in regards to the temperatures usually recommended. I'll check in a little while to see where the temps are today, but last night I was reading in the low to mid 80's at leaf height. Too warm? Ok? Seems a bit warm to me.

I'm not overjoyed with the seedlings as they appear to a bit leggy and are leaning towards the light. I'm wondering if the bare LEDs are such a point-source of light that the seedlings are trying to grow towards a specific point of light (LED). With florescents and even the opaque LED replacement tubes the light was more diffused and the seedlings (best as I recall) grew straight and were squattier than these are. I'm wondering if the distance from LED to hood-edge is keeping the seedlings too far away from the light. And, with the heat question in my mind, I added roughly 3/4" of distance between the lights and seedlings...so that could make the legginess issue even worse.

Do you ever feel the two steps forward and one step back thing? Or, is it one step forward and two steps back?

Anyhow, I've suggested these light fixtures several times and just wanted to post about my current misgivings about them. Hopefully they'll be ok...otherwise I need to build a shop to stick these in!

Anybody got thoughts on the temperature?

ETA: Just to clarify...by "temperature" I'm speaking in terms of hot/cold....not color temp.

The LED tubes need to be the 6500K ones.
I had tried some with lower K and they did not give as good growth.

CarolineScott said: The LED tubes need to be the 6500K ones.
I had tried some with lower K and they did not give as good growth.

Does it matter if the lights are LED or florescent in regards to color temperature? The highest color temp that I've used is 5000k and I think my transplants have turned out ok. 6500k would be better, I'm sure, but 5000k is about all you can find locally around here.

Ideal temp ED, is soil temps between 65* to 75* for seedlings.

That' about what I read most places but I honestly don't know that I've grown seedlings consistently in that range...seems its always been higher due to ambient temperatures as I usually start seeds later than I did this year. It'd be simpler to just accept what Lowe's or Wallyworld has to offer and go from there. But, where's the excitement in that?....you know, "The thrill of victory...the agony of defeat".

I posted this elsewhere but... Last night I set up my little 6" fan which is plugged into the same power strip that the light fixtures are plugged into and that are on the timer. It is a *very* gentle breeze on low but I saw the temperature beneath the lights drop nicely once the heated air beneath the lights got mixed with some cooler room air. I'm heading to the trailer in a few minutes to see how things are looking and will report back.

Ok. The temp was 72f with the fan running. It appears it got down to 65f last night. Should be about the same tonight.

But, I'm having second thoughts about the LEDs. I looked at Lowe's website and they didn't have any fluorescent shop lights available. I've got some stored in a shed. I've got a couple of tubes I can test them out with. If they work I *may* switch to them. What has me really bugged is the point source light of these LEDs rather than the spread out, diffused light of the fluorescents. Plus these fixtures don't let you get within the distance I like. Or, maybe I'm just an old fart stuck in the past.

Btw, somebody recently spoke well of 6400K temp bulbs...I can get them in fluorescents!

The LED s do not give out as much heat as the old fluorescent.
I use LED s in a warm basement and seeds sprout.
T5 s give off heat and are good for sprouting seeds.
I have two Jiffy LEDs which are good for shade plants as they seem weaker?

Caroline, I turned my little fan on and that seemed to have handled the heat issue. My thought of going back to fluorescents is to get the actual light closer to the seedlings. The fluorescent fixtures seemed to place the tube even or even out past the edges of the hoods...these LEDs are set back up into the hood an inch and a half. So if I leave the hoods at 1/2" above the plants for clearance that mean the light is actually 2" above the seedlings.

running a fan w a light breeze will help the plants to develop a stronger root system I have been told.

Yes. It does seem to make them strong. I run the fan from when they're just sprouting till I transplant them to the garden. The fan strengthens the stems, gives little flies and bugs fits, keeps the heat down and fresh air moving.

Some shop lights that used T8 s can use LED s but you would need to check with the manufacturer…?

Yes, I've retrofitted one ballasted fixture with some LED tubes. The tubes worked fine without any modifications to the fixture. They were opaque tubes so no point-source light, the light emitted was more diffused which I think the seedlings might respond to better...but I'm no expert. But, yes, the replacement LED tubes worked fine.

I'm still undecided about the point-source LEDs in the Walmart fixtures. What is getting me is that *some* of the seedlings are leaning heavily in one direction or another...like they're seeking light or are being drawn to a specific point of light. It's kinda of odd. May be something else going on. I'm just not getting the overall straight, upright growth that I'm accustomed to. This is the first year of having all LED lights...last year it was 1-fluorescent, 1-opaque LED, and 1-Walmart fixture.

I've got some *old* fluorescent fixtures I may drag out and check...and maybe a hodge-podge of enough tubes to fill'em.

There's one thing about it, the old fluorescent shop lights are now a thing of the past from what I can tell...everywhere I look there's only LED fixtures offered.

The two main things I'm not liking about the Wallyworld fixtures is:

1 - There's 1-1/2 inches between the LEDs and the edges of the hood...meaning that basically to be able to slide seedlings beneath the lights you have to have at least 1-1/2 gap between LEDs and the seedlings' tops or risk scrubbing them against the hood edges.

2 - The LEDs are not the opaque-type of tubes I've used in the past to retrofit fluorescent fixtures with. The LEDs are shielded behind a thin, clear plastic cover (that are subject to fall off ). The seedlings *appear* to be growing towards the point-sources of light...maybe I'm wrong about it...maybe I'm right....???

Lots of folks use these and maybe I'm just an old-stick-in-the-mud....

Yes, they are seeking more light. 5000k is not strong enough!
I myself use 6,500k LED tubes. I start all of my veggies and a few annuals under these lights. Better tubes, the high intensity, wide spectrum tubes are what I use. I have to replace mine every two years as intensity does drop off a bit! I have 18 tubes total so I buy bulbs by the box. 36 in a box really drops the price way down per bulb.
These high intensity tubes are very economical to run, about $14-15 per month for all of them! I have them on, every day, for either 12 or 14 hours depending upon season. AND THEY GENERATE NEXT TO NOTHING IN EXTRA HEAT. But I am in Michigan, you are in Alabama! You need possibly to put everything in a room and cool the room.

Good deals on light fixtures and bulbs are available on line!

Hmmm, seems as though the conversation is talking about two different things.

"5000K" and "6500K" would denote kelvin color temperature of the light

"5000 lumens" would denote the degree of brightness.

The Wallyworld lights are 5000K/5000-Lumens. What are ya'lls lights rated at for those two values?

Leds are more to the blue spectrums, my seedlings lean under these as well. I still have the 2 full spectrum bulbs, so switch the plants. Tomatoes love the reddish hues of the full spectrum. Peppers just want light.

I do not deal in lumens. I deal in foot candles.
My broad spectrum, high intensity, LED tubes produce 1500 ft. candles. I use a hand held meter held 3" below the center of the tubes.
The same bulbs in a 3 tube fixture produce 1,800 ft. candles.

I've got to admit that my peppers don't exhibit the "lean" like the tomatoes do. I know I've got one fluorescent fixture with some warm white bulbs in it...I might take out the middle LED fixture and insert that one. It might be interesting to see how it works out.

Thanks for the feedback, Kat!!! You got everything bundled up for your coming freeze?

Me! Bundled up! cool weather plants are outdoors unless freezes at night, warm weather plants go out above 50*, herbs love winter, so they are planted. Back to thinking putting some tomato plants out the 12th, but reserving spares for another week later, just in case. Ran out of potting soil and have been refusing to go into town, still too chilly for the effort. So pepper seeds are holding for soil.

BigBill said: I do not deal in lumens. I deal in foot candles.
My broad spectrum, high intensity, LED tubes produce 1500 ft. candles. I use a hand held meter held 3" below the center of the tubes.
The same bulbs in a 3 tube fixture produce 1,800 ft. candles.

<chuckle> But, you were talking about 6500K as if it was in regards to brightness, so I brought the confusion between temperature and lumens up.

BigBill said:Yes, they are seeking more light. 5000k is not strong enough!
I myself use 6,500k LED tubes. I start all of my veggies and a few annuals under these lights.

Thanks for the feedback, Bill, but I think I'm going to pass on the conversions and such. I'm just looking for lights that most people can walk in a store, buy, and they work...most inexpensive retail light specifications mention little or nothing at all regarding footcandles and I don't have a meter to use to measure footcandles.

The Wallyworld lights *are* working, but I do think they could be better. I had no problems with my old fluorescent fixtures. My take on this is that the color temperature and lumens of the current fixtures are sufficient being as similar combinations have worked well for me over the last several years...even with lower lumens and slightly lower temperatures. I think the problems with my current LED fixtures is the exposed point-source LEDs (behind a thin plastic half-dome) and the hood extending too far downward that makes it very difficult to get the light strips closer than 1-1/2" to the seedlings.

Just to clarify, when I mention "point source" it means that the light comes from a "point" maybe 1/4" square with an inch or two of no light between those points. A fluorescent tube has a broad light source with no empty points along it's length.