Germinated seed planted 12th Jan 2022:
Crossing 2 white seedling parents from last year (both from seeds planted October 2020, so this 2nd generation bloom in less than 18mth).
Testing whether they would make white babies.
Answer: nope. White is most likely not dominant and definitely not recessive (if monogenic).

Parents:


FFE child (5" bloom) seedling 1:

Was only testing the color inheritance so I do not mind the flower is ugly.

In case you are wondering about the black background in the above posting, because the seedlings are indoors (well, most have just been moved outside), I have been testing better background colors to enhance the pics.
Here is an example comparing a seedling with unusually white leaves (it is not variegated) to one with unusually red leaves.



The background colors are not computer-added. The white is a big tupperware lid, and the black is a piece of furniture.

I had a bloom this morning on a 2019 seedling, Mister Lucky x Wonder of it All.
Nothing like what I was hoping for, but a bloom nonetheless.

Edited to add:
The red patches on the ends of the sepals are interesting.

Not great but new this morning

They sure look good to me!

They sure look good to me! I'm just starting to see some scapes emerging here -- our weather has been like a roller coaster for the last few weeks -- a couple of days in the 90's, then back to the 50's and 60's. But on the bright side, at least we never get snow, although we could sure use some moisture out here. We're already having to ration our water, so it's going to be a long hot summer!

Hmmm. Red is dominant (Arisumi) so there seems to be a problem.
One or both of the "whites" are likely to not be "white" - that is, they have anthocyanin pigments but maybe are very pale perhaps, "pinkish".

I shall endeavor to inspect them in more detail when they flower this season . Of-course, the eye can only see so much (I may need a spectrophotometer). If interested in bigger pictures, including side-by-side with a pale pink (in the same photo) for direct comparison here is a collection of snaps from last year for one of the parents:
https://garden.org/lists/item/...

The other parent is here:
https://garden.org/lists/item/...
The only one I can see pale pink is with my pink hand behind it as it is somewhat translucent.

The only difference between both parents is the color of the pollen. The latter has orange pollen, and the former has yellow pollen. Not sure if the pollen color would make any difference, though.
My only thought to hold with dogma would be epigenetics. The red gene is there in both parents, but simply not transcribed due to transcriptional repression, in both parents? That repression is then released in the kid. I imagine the red gene must get repressed a lot in non-red daylilies if it is dominant (because it should still be there). Otherwise all daylilies would be red aside from a few rare ones with double-recessive mutations.

Fred's blooms look really nice. My only new seedling bloom has been trying to open now for two days and this is the best it has been able to do.

Is it just in my mind hoping to see some sculpted relief or is that actually slightly visible? Sdlg. x Luanne Tarro

The bottom-left petal does show something. But again you have a strange sepal pattern. Co-incidence? Or are they reacting to your sprays somehow? I only ask because I know my double-knockout rosebush reacts to my anti-fungals in strange ways (I think that anti-fungal causes some chlorosis and delays flowering). Daylilies may also be quirky when full of chemicals. This I have zero experience of (just thinking out loud).

I am sure the effect of the fungicide is dependent on the one being used, but if anything, what I use seems to just cause the daylily foliage to get larger, the leaves to be greener and the plants have had no delay in bloom times that I have noticed on my registered plants.
There should be no effect on the seedlings, I don't intentionally spray them.
As far as the roses, If I did not spray them there would be no leaves at all on them.
Edited to add:
My Double cherry Red knockout is blooming today.

Lots of buds.

To check whether there is some anthocyanin pigment in the flowers you might try picking a bud the morning of the day before you estimate it will open (before it even cracks open at the tip of the bud even slightly). Place the bud with the tip of its pedicel in a bit of water in a glass in the dark in the refrigerator. At about lunchtime of the day it was expected to open remove it from the refrigerator and check it immediately for petal colour. Some daylilies (particularly near-whites) have a slight bit of pigment in their petals which immediately starts to fade quickly as soon as light hits the petal so speed is essential. In some near-whites the pigment is faint pink and gone in a couple of moments after light hits the petal. It is also possible that removing the petals from the bud while in a darkened room a few days before you estimate it is about to open naturally you might be able to catch fleeting faint anthocyanin pigmentation before it is destroyed by light. I don't know when anthocyanin pigments begin being developed in the petals or how quickly they develop. but I have tried the refrigerator (cool and dark environment) which tends to increase anthocyanin pigmentation.
Temperature effects on anthocyanin pigmentation are shown below


Light intensity also affects the development of anthocyanin pigments in flower buds.

Yes, there might be some much throat area on the petal and so little normal petal area where anthocyanin pigments normally occur that it might require specific chemical tests for anthocyanin pigments.

Also, another simple possibility, if the flowers were not protected from insects, is that insects also pollinated the flower(s) with pollen from a red flowered daylily that was in bloom.

I don't expect that it involves an epigenetic effect. There are a few daylilies that have 'Rose F. Kennedy' as a parent and are registered as "near-whites". Since RFK shows its anthocyanin pigmentation and the other parents that were involved tended to have low anthocyanin pigment levels my guess is that the presence (versus complete absence) of anthocyanin pigments is a simple dominant but that the amount of actual pigment is a quantitative genetic effect (basically I agree with Arisumi for both aspects). The actual amount of pigment is also greatly affected by the environment so there are strong genotype X environment interaction effects related to the quantity of anthocyanin pigment in petals.

How anthocyanin pigments are made in flowers.


The abbreviations "on" the arrows are for the enzymes that act on the chemical compounds and change them at each step of the pathway to forming the final anthocyanin pigment. Each enzyme is the end product of a different gene. If a particular gene has a mutation (a change in its DNA sequence) that causes it to be non-functional then the pathway stops at the compound that the enzyme normally acts on (its substrate).
If any gene in the sequence before ANS is mutated to not function then anthocyanin pigments are not made. The pigments that are made are either colourless/white or pale yellow cream under normal circumstances.
The yellow flowered daylily species have mutations somewhere in the genes of the anthocyanin pathway since they do not make anthocyanin coloured pigments in their flowers. Their yellow coloured flowers contain carotenoid pigments. Hemerocallis fulva has both anthocyanin and carotenoid pigments in its flowers. Near-white daylily cultivars typically have no anthocyanin pigments and very little carotenoid pigments. However, they can also have very little of both pigments. It depends on the specific cultivar and its ancestry.

plasko20 said: The red gene is there in both parents, but simply not transcribed due to transcriptional repression, in both parents

The specific gene is usually present (although it can be deleted and therefore missing in one type of genetic difference). However, the gene can be present as either a functional (normal) form (allele) or a non-functional (mutant) form (allele). The non-functional, mutant form of the gene is not usually repressed but is physically different - it has a different sequence of its components (nucleotides) making it no longer work properly permanently (except in the unlikely occurrence of a back mutation restoring the original sequence).

I imagine the red gene must get repressed a lot in non-red daylilies if it is dominant (because it should still be there)

A daylily that has red flowers has one or two copies of the functional form (allele) of a necessary gene for red coloured flowers. A daylily that has flowers with no anthocyanin pigments has two non-functional forms (alleles) of the same gene.

Otherwise all daylilies would be red aside from a few rare ones with double-recessive mutations.

The number of daylilies that would have red flowers depends on the proportion of the allele in the breeding population that is normal (technically called wild-type usually) and the proportion of the allele in the breeding population that is mutant (not functional). That number also depends on how daylily crosses are made in the breeding population - for example on how often red flowered daylilies are used in crosses, on how often red flowered daylilies are crossed to non-red flowered daylilies, etc.

I think I need to switch to your spray, Larry. I like big foliage.

I have always liked big foliage too, but now that I spray I am liking it less because it takes so long to spray and using so much of the spray (expensive). It is so much less effort to spray normal sized little plants instead of big clumps with extra long foliage. Now I am needing to space many of my plants further apart.

Oh. Thanks for bringing up those points. I already have limited space as it is.
Alright. Mission aborted.

I swear one day I will have a pretty seedling.
Roses in Snow x Wonder of It All

I think that day is today.
I like that one. Reminds me of EITPF, with fun yellow stripes.
How are your night-time temperatures? Still cold?
I am asking because of the yellow Chinese daylily I showed in another thread. Initial flowers indoors in the warm were pretty. But since I put it outside they (on the same scape) have been not so nice. Not the best CMO, I guess. However, the blooms seem to last 2-3 days outdoors instead of 1 indoors as it is like putting them in the fridge overnight.

A couple of little ones yesterday.