I saw this lovely rose at Havoc Hall garden in Yorkshire on holiday last week. Sadly most of the roses there weren't labeled.
It was a large shrub with quite large flowers held in big clusters with quite prominent anthers.
Any suggestions for an ID?

You can email the garden's owner, David Lis, to ask him. His address on the garden's website is: [email protected]

In the meantime, for the rest of us, here's a link to a wonderful tour of the gardens. It's narrated by David, and he briefly discusses the different rose varieties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

That's a wonderful video, Mike. It looks as if he works as hard on his garden as you do!

The rose is Ballerina. I thought it had smaller flowers.

ne definitely has smaller flowers.

I agree, the rose in your photos is not "Ballerina".

Here are a couple of roses you might want to look at:


Mozart
Rose (Rosa 'Mozart')


Rosy Cushion
Rose (Rosa 'Rosy Cushion')


'Sparrieshoop
Rose (Rosa 'Sparrieshoop')

These are just three roses that came to mind when I saw your photos.

All good roses ...

Here's a photo of my Ballerina, and as you can see, it has very small but numerous flowers.

This is the reason I asked the question as I had discounted Ballerina as having smaller flowers. But I did contact the garden and they say it's Ballerina...

What do they feed their roses?!

Hah!

RoseBlush1 said:
Mozart
Rose (Rosa 'Mozart')

• Rose (Rosa 'Rosy Cushion')
• Uploaded by kniphofia

Speaking of Mozart, does Mozart repeat flowering for you? Mine blooms once (for a long time though). Please advise. Thanks.

@kniphofia ....

Jack Harkness wrote in his book, Roses, (published in 1978) pg 158
"in the same year a very similar variety appeared in Germany, raised by Peter Lambert, and named 'Mozart'. It's parents were 'Robin Hood' x 'Rote Pharisaer', and it varies from 'Ballerina' in having a deeper pink around its white eye; its foliage is slightly more inclined towards the multiflora type."

'Mozart' is a cross between a hybrid musk and a hybrid tea, but appears to show more of the hybrid musk characteristics. So I looked up the seed parent, 'Robin Hood'.

Harkness wrote this in the same book on page 120 'Robin Hood' was called a Hybrid Musk, although in reality it is a Polyantha, and was only excluded from that class by its size, because people thought Polyanthas should be dwarf......

on page 158

'Robin Hood' Medium height +. Red. Remontant. Perfume 2 [on an ascending scale of merit from 1 to 10]. Hips 2. We now come to a Polyantha different from the 'Orleans Rose' type. it is usually called a Hybrid Musk, and grows into a spreading bush, with narrow, dark, smooth leaves. The flowers are red, with white at the centre, small, opening with a semi-double appearance, and multitudinous. It was raised by the Rev. J. H. Pemberton from a seedling x 'Miss Edith Cavell' and turned out to be a valuable parent in the hands of Wilhelm Kordes. Introduced in 1927.

I also looked up 'Ballerina'

Harkness wrote in the same book on page 159

"'Ballerina' Medium + Light pink Remontant P1 H2 ***
A splendid, dense plant, often with a squared-off look, and nearly always in good health and vigour. The flowers are small and single, light pink with a white eye; when a basal shoot arises, it bears a huge head of them, like a mop. This rose went unnoticed by most British nurserymen, until Fryers of Knutsford had the perception to advance it. A group of plants can form a handsome clump. No doubt this was one of Pemberton's seedlings, for it was introduced by his successor, J. A. Bentall, in 1937. We have no information as to its parents…..
Mozart'…..varies from 'Ballerina' in having a deeper pink around its white eye
'Belinda', which came from Bentall in 1936….slightly taller…looks like a sister of 'Ballerina'."

This is a photo from the NGA database of 'Ballerina'


You will notice the petals are less "ruffled" than the blooms in your photo, so I am leaning towards 'Mozart'.

@Jasmin ....
'Mozart' is said to have a "continuous" bloom cycle, which means it does not bloom in flushes. With climate change, it's hard to predict bloom performance. It's possible the rose may have only one bloom period in the spring. I don't know.

@Mike ...
I hope you add that photo to the NGA database ... It's beautiful

I think having photos of the whole plant in the db is incredibly valuable.

Lyn

I've been looking at the photos I took of the many roses at Wynyard Hall garden which was the last garden on my trip back home from my holiday in Yorkshire.

They have Rosy Cushion, and comparing that with the photos I took at Havoc Hall I'm now sure that what they say is Ballerina is this rose.

Many thanks everyone for all your input and suggestions. Glad to know my original instinct in discounting Ballerina was correct.

RoseBlush1 said:

@Jasmin ....
'Mozart' is said to have a "continuous" bloom cycle, which means it does not bloom in flushes. With climate change, it's hard to predict bloom performance. It's possible the rose may have only one bloom period in the spring. I don't know.

Lyn, my Mozart blooms again, not a lot though. This is for the first time that it has been blooming for so long. It wasn't really continuous, but rather as a very fast second flush. Anyway, I'll take it

Sue Taylor I had this very discussion with Jason from Fraser Valley Rose Farm, since, he and I (and you) have very similar climates. We both think that Ballerina and Mozart have gotten very mixed up. It might be that Ballerina in the UK is actually the true one and the several sizes ones sold by different nurseries in the US/Can are mislabeled. There is even another one Nearly Wild that seems to be on the Eastcoast that looks very similar.

Lyn.....The size of the flower seems to be the issue with Jason and helpmefind. 1" is what Jason has from a very reputable grower and helpmefind has 2" Other experts have said 1" is correct, but helpmefind has lots of knowledgable people too.

@Sandsock ... Annie,

Thank you for inspiring me to go back and look at the HMF entries for both Ballerina .. Bentall, 1937 and Mozart Lambert, 1936.

I was one of the first volunteer Admins for HMF and worked on the site for over 10 years. It was a wonderful way to play in the rose world and I learned a lot about roses while working on the site.

One of the Admin tasks was to enter REFERENCES about roses listed on the site. I often used Jack Harkness's book Roses as a source of information.

Under the REFERENCE tab for Ballerina you will find:

"'Ballerina' Medium + Light pink Remontant P1 H2 ***
A splendid, dense plant, often with a squared-off look, and nearly always in good health and vigour. The flowers are small and single, light pink with a white eye; when a basal shoot arises, it bears a huge head of them, like a mop. This rose went unnoticed by most British nurserymen, until Fryers of Knutsford had the perception to advance it. A group of plants can form a handsome clump. No doubt this was one of Pemberton's seedlings, for it was introduced by his successor, J. A. Bentall, in 1937. We have no information as to its parents…..
Mozart'…..varies from 'Ballerina' in having a deeper pink around its white eye 'Belinda', which came from Bentall in 1936….slightly taller…looks like a sister of 'Ballerina' "

On the Mozart REFERENCES tab you will find:

"in the same year a very similar variety appeared in Germany, raised by Peter Lambert, and named 'Mozart'. It's parents were 'Robin Hood' x 'Rote Pharisaer', and it varies from 'Ballerina' in having a deeper pink around its white eye; its foliage is slightly more inclined towards the multiflora type. "

As for possibility of the rose being mislabeled by various nurseries ... well it does happen. There are also so many variables that impact how a rose performs, it can make identification quite challenging.

Smiles,
Lyn