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Avatar for kskantze
Sep 24, 2022 8:38 AM CST
Thread OP
West coast MICHIGAN
This is year 3 that we've had our inherited plants from son, who said "won't bloom bloom for us". That has been the case for us as well. No buds have formed and overall size of plants have not increased much.
We are zone 6. Site where plants placed gets at least 6 h sun daily. When planted, added compost to soil (sandy) and area surrounded with bark mulch. Fertilized twice this summer with espoma fertilizer. Will water every 2 -3days, plus more, if starts to wilt between routine watering. Any suggestions for promoting blooms next year? Thank you.
Avatar for luis_pr
Sep 24, 2022 10:02 AM CST
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Azaleas Salvias Roses Plumerias Region: Northeast US Region: New Hampshire
Hydrangeas Hibiscus Region: Georgia Region: Florida Dog Lover Region: Texas
Can you please post a picture and include it's current dimensions? Exactly when did you fertilize? I need to look up you historical weather and your city's frost dates; can you provide your city's name or a nearby city very close to you? 'West coast of Michigan' is not sufficiently precise for meteorological data. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by luis_pr Sep 24, 2022 10:07 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for kskantze
Sep 26, 2022 10:56 AM CST
Thread OP
West coast MICHIGAN
Greetings luis_pr~
Thank you for the reply and my apologies for delay in response. Weather has not been that favorable in past couple of days for me to grab a pic or two for this email. I have included 2 pics of 1 of 3 hydrangeas, all roughly the same size 20-22"w x 10-12" h.
Thusfar, West MI has had a grand fall w/ very comfortable temps: 60-70's daytime to 50's nighttime until end of last week when temps have been in the 50's around- the- clock. Except for one night, when it reached 37.
Hope you find pics are helpful, and again, I appreciate your advice/suggestions for us at getting the hydrangeas to bloom in 2023.
Best Kristin


Thumb of 2022-09-26/kskantze/aa587f

Thumb of 2022-09-26/kskantze/c96172
Avatar for luis_pr
Sep 26, 2022 12:02 PM CST
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Azaleas Salvias Roses Plumerias Region: Northeast US Region: New Hampshire
Hydrangeas Hibiscus Region: Georgia Region: Florida Dog Lover Region: Texas
Ah, thanks! The way "rebloomer" (a misleading term but used anyway in ads) hydrangeas work is as follows… You typically only get two flushes of blooms per plant, one in the spring and another one in late summer/fall.

The spring flush occurs when/if last year's stems survive winter and early/late frosts as this type of hydrangea is winter hardy but not bloom reliable in cold regions. The spring flower buds develop on the prior summer/fall and they reside inside the ends of those stems. If winter or late frosts kills them then there is no spring flush. You can increase the chances of the stems surviving by using winter protection and frost protection until your city's average dates of frost. Avoid pruning last year's stems at improper times or you may end up cutting off the blooms. Do not assume the stems in spring are necessarily dead as stem leaf out occurs way later than new growth grows from the base/crown; the stems may thus be still alive (although I suspect 'not' in Z4 or Z5 without winter protection) so wait to prune dead looking stems until July.

The late summer flush occurs when the new spring 2022 stems start to grow, get tall, produce flower buds and open the buds… all before the end of the season. The crown is the area where all the new spring stems typically start to grow from. In order to bloom, these stems have to grow fast to achieve the necessary height/age that triggers the flower bud growth that will then immediately open and bloom.

There is no exact/reliable trigger height which forces LA Dreaming (LAD) to bud growth and its blooms to open but it should be somewhat close to the advertised height of the shrub. LAD is advertised to have a height of 4 feet.

I suspect the main contributing factors are that the cold winters kill the old stems and that the new stems are not getting tall enough by the time that the end of the growing season arrives and reduced sunlight slows down plant growth, the opposite of what is needed for the late summer/fall flush.

The first flush can be saved if one uses winter protection techniques that allow the ends of the stems to survive. The second flush can be helped if one tries to take steps that allow the new spring stems to very quickly achieve new heights in time to trigger new growth to produce flower buds and then to open them.

For the late summer blooming problem of Big Leaf Hydrangeas, I typically recommend -in very northern locations- only using extremely compact cultivars that are advertised to get 3 feet high (or less) maximum or using the Tuff Collection of Mountain Hydrangeas. So no 4' or 5' Big Leaf cultivars, for example. In other words, use varieties that get no higher/taller than 2 feet or 3 feet high (or less) per the plant label information. The approximate 4' height of LAD does not seem attainable in that planting location and thus the cultivar does not bloom/bloom well in your area. Per your pictures, the LAD stems appear to be 2' or too short of what is needed to trigger blooming before the end of the season.

Other than switching to more reliable bloomers like Smooth Hydrangeas (morning sun) or Panicle Hydrangeas (part or full sun), you and your son can try winter protection, switching to shorter cultivars (or the Tuff Collection) or take steps to increase stem growth to faster, higher levels. The Let's Dance Collection of Big Leaf mopheads/lacecaps at provenwinners.com includes a few cultivars that stay under the 3 feet tops (or even less) suggestion: Sky View, Starlight, Blue Jangles, Rave. For example, Blue Jangles gets only from 12 inches high to 2 feet high max. Do not choose Let's Dance cultivars whose height can get 3-4' or 3-5' high. The maximum height should be 1-3 feet. These cultivars may be difficult to find locally in spring unless you special order with your local plant nursery. Instead, I would consider ordering them online from provenwinners.com for delivery in spring (they may be out of stock now and you also do not want deliveries when it is freezing).

Regarding trying to promote more rapid growth from the existing plant, can you elaborate in more detail how do you fertilize, with what, and exactly when? I will need an idea of near what city you are to research annual meteorological information.

Thanks in advance, Luis
Last edited by luis_pr Sep 26, 2022 4:33 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for kskantze
Sep 28, 2022 8:11 AM CST
Thread OP
West coast MICHIGAN
Luis-pr~ appreciate your wonderful detailed, very helpful/informative response.

With regards to type of fertilizer: I used Espoma Holly tone in early-mid May at drip line and again in midAugust. Location of plantings -Grand Haven Michigan.

Thank you kindly!
Best!
Kristin
Avatar for luis_pr
Sep 29, 2022 2:06 PM CST
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Azaleas Salvias Roses Plumerias Region: Northeast US Region: New Hampshire
Hydrangeas Hibiscus Region: Georgia Region: Florida Dog Lover Region: Texas
Sorry for the delay. I have four legged visitor that I am having to babysit and monitor.

As previously mentioned, to produce the spring blooms, the stems need to survive and apparently winter is killing them, are fertilizing too late in the fall or you are pruning stems after flower buds develop inside the ends of the stem in July-August. To avoid pruning them too early, you can simply wait until the end of June (or even in July) to prune dead wood if you wish. You can also use the scratch method to confirm the status of the stems but this when they should be very slowly breaking dormancy and getting some moisture flowing through their system again, not in very early spring. Sa, mid-May? If the result is that the stems are definitely not surviving, you can try chicken wire around the plant and fill it with mulch. The aim is to protect the stems, specifically the ends of the stems. I keep the chicken wire away from the shrub horizontally and vertically b. With your cold winters, maybe 6 inches or more in either direction will help protect things. I fill them with either composted hay or mulch. The hay tends to fly off and settle so I add more in mid-winter and top it with cardboard so it does not fly off. Mulch is now being used more often as it does not fly off as easily as composted hay does. Both of them then get re-used as mulch around the hydrangeas and other plants in spring.

To produce the summer blooms, the plant needs to get tall enough to produce blooms before the end of the season. It should do that as soon as the stems are close to its estimated height of 4 feet but, the shrubs in the picture clearly indicate that they are not close to that height. That suggests to me that another rebloomer variety that does not grow as tall is required. By that, I would look for varieties that are advertised to reach a height of only 1-2 feet.. If the plant info says that the rebloomer has a height of 3-4 or 3-5, do not select those. Examples previously mentioned: some of the Let's Dance varieties (Sky View, Starlight, Blue Jangles, Rave), some of the Everlasting varieties or the varieties of the Tuff Collection, which all consist of mountain "serrata" hydrangeas.

Having said that, another person in PA that was having blooming issues, mentioned to me that he changed his fertilizing program to force more growth and get successful blooms from the late summer/fall flush Big Leaf rebloomers. Aside from locating the plants with lots of sunlight exposure + maintaining a minimum of 2" of organic mulch + trying to maintain the soil always moist (things that would promote growth), he put them in a high-phosphorus diet. Right after the last freeze in spring (for Grand Haven, this falls around the 2nd-3rd weeks of May), he immediately applied a 10-10-10 slow release fertilizer only once. Afterwards, he applied 1-2 doses of a quick release fertilizer (Superbloom or one with a NPK Ratio of about 12-55-6) in June and July but, do not apply them close to the 2nd-3rd weeks of October in Grand Haven, which is when your first frost typically "appear". In between or after the Supplerbloom applications, he sprinkled coffee grounds from Starbucks until about a month before early frosts. Also, starting from new growth, he pinched growing tips every foot or so to encourage branching (which he says doubles the bloom count this or the following season for him). So, you are welcome to try that to see if that makes them grow taller and trigger blooms.

Alternatively, you can use shorter rebloomers or for more reliable blooms, use Smooth Hydrangeas like the Invincibelle Series: Lace, Limetta, Mini-Mauvette, Ruby, Spirit or Spirit II, Sublime, Wee White; as well as the Incrediball Series: Incrediball or Incrediball Blush; or the Mountain Hydrangeas in the Tuff Series: Tuff Stuff, Tiny Tuff Stuff, Tuff Stuff Ah-ha, or Tuff Stuff Red. These can be found at provenwinners.com or locally and should be winter hardy to z3 and very bloom reliable.
Last edited by luis_pr Sep 30, 2022 1:17 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for kskantze
Oct 19, 2022 10:08 AM CST
Thread OP
West coast MICHIGAN
Luis!
Thank you so much for your splendid recommendations! You have provided me with many "tools" to tackle my hydrangea issues! Thank you kindly! Best~Kristin
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