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Apr 26, 2016 8:51 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
I would love for it to be an agarita but I feel it isn't Shrug!

Thumb of 2016-04-26/froggardener/7793d1
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Last edited by froggardener Apr 26, 2016 6:33 PM Icon for preview
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Apr 26, 2016 4:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
@LindaTx8, do you have Agarita on your property? If so, do you have lil seedlings now?
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
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Apr 26, 2016 7:50 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
At this point the leaves look quite different from Agarita.
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Apr 26, 2016 8:36 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
Yeah, they do . I just want one so bad, nodding
Thanks for replying
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
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Apr 26, 2016 8:59 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
You have to remember seedling leaves very often look nothing like adult leaves. I grow a variety of Hibiscus with various shaped leaves but the young leaves look very similar to each other, but get their true shapes much later. Those sharp points on your sure could be what Agarita looks like starting out. I would wait it out until I knew for sure what it is.
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Apr 26, 2016 9:30 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
Thanks Jay, I will keep it for sure. I'm very curious
I'm experimenting with a couple of passifloras. I have them on the porch up against the house and the porch is covered, just to see what they do in bright shade. The leaves have already changed. they are oval now. Smiling
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Last edited by froggardener Apr 27, 2016 9:06 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 27, 2016 3:30 PM CST
Name: Linda Williams
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
Organic Gardener Bookworm Enjoys or suffers hot summers Charter ATP Member Salvias Herbs
Bluebonnets Native Plants and Wildflowers Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Forum moderator Purslane Hummingbirder
@froggardener, I finally got around and looked around the place to see if I might have a seedling Agarita. Here's the smallest I saw, maybe it'll give you some idea, because even though it's not a true seedling, the leaves are definitely a bit different.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/LindaTX8/2610a6
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Last edited by LindaTX8 Apr 27, 2016 3:30 PM Icon for preview
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Apr 27, 2016 9:56 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
Oh Darn. Thanks for looking Linda Thank You! Thank You!
Well, I'm real curious what it is now. nodding
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
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Apr 28, 2016 4:52 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Berberis glaucocarpa seedlings have leaves like this, it's not on the USDA plants but is on a list of USDA Rust Susceptible Berberis. I can't quite make out the leaf venation on the seedling pic.

http://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora_...

http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/d...

Are there any Mahonias nearby?

https://www.google.co.uk/searc...

https://www.google.co.uk/searc...
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Apr 28, 2016 7:10 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
Hi Janet, no mahonia on at least 3 streets from me and most likely none
Most people here have just green boxes around their homes
I'm the only plantaholic Of course birds can bring seeds further
Thank you for replying
If I can keep the snails off of it, we will get to see what it is
The snails already got one leaf
Thanks again
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
Last edited by froggardener Apr 28, 2016 7:23 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 28, 2016 7:36 AM CST
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
LindaTX8 said:@froggardener, I finally got around and looked around the place to see if I might have a seedling Agarita. Here's the smallest I saw, maybe it'll give you some idea, because even though it's not a true seedling, the leaves are definitely a bit different.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/LindaTX8/2610a6



The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .
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Apr 28, 2016 7:45 AM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
needrain said:

The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .


That's what I was thinking also Donald. The largest leaf on Jolanas' looks very much like the older leaves on Linda's. I have a Hibiscus cannabinus "Amethyst" seedlling that started out with single round leaves. It is just now starting to show the palmate leaves on the fifth leaf.
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Apr 28, 2016 7:51 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
needrain said:

The newer leaves here are different, but, to me, those older leaves lower on the stem look the same as the leaves shown in Jolana's photo. As her plant matures, later leaves might change appearance. Even the leaf veins look to have the same pattern as far as I can tell. What am I not seeing? I do have newer spectacles, so maybe I should try those Smiling .


Similar, but not the same. Smiling

Thumb of 2016-04-28/JRsbugs/a751a1 Thumb of 2016-04-28/JRsbugs/f36987

Compare the venation to those on Mahonia bealei and they are much the same.

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd...

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd...

http://www.invasive.org/weedcd...
Last edited by JRsbugs Apr 28, 2016 7:54 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 28, 2016 8:11 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
I still think this is Berberis. I found an article which might help,

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/pr...

This throws the cat amongst the pigeons:

The cotyledons and first true (juvenile stage 1) leaves do not differentiate our Berberis species, nor the hybrids


http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/pr...
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Apr 28, 2016 9:07 AM CST
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
Rolling on the floor laughing I found this searching on the net:

"Agarita’s official Latin name was Berberis/now Mahonia trifoliolata (don't you love taxonomists!) and belongs to the Berberidaceae family of plants."

Obviously I may not even know what we are discussing here nodding . I know agarita from southwest Texas and the hill country, but maybe what I thought I knew isn't anything resembling real knowledge Hilarious! .
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Apr 28, 2016 9:16 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
It's forever changing. Rolling my eyes. Latin names are always best used as so many common names are misplaced.

Mahonia trifoliolata is accepted. On the same page:

⥇ A cross-taxon basionym link was ignored while processing this record, see Berberis trifoliolata Moric..


http://www.theplantlist.org/tp...

Berberis trifoliolata Moric. is an unresolved name:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tp...

So the link which shows B. trifoliolata images really means they are showing Mahonia?! Hilarious!

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/pr...
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Apr 28, 2016 10:48 AM CST
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
I know it's easy to boggle my mind, but it seems especially true when comes to plant names. Changing the nomenclature on a Latin name isn't helpful to my memory bank. On the other hand common names get shared among different plants. I've had conversations, discussions or whatever you would call them, that went for some length until it was discovered the common name being used concerned two totally different plants. Even photos can be confusing! Sticking tongue out Sticking tongue out
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Apr 28, 2016 1:57 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
Oh my goodness thank y'all so very much for trying to help me solve this Smiling Smiling
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren
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Apr 28, 2016 2:31 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
The fact that Berberis trifoliolata is now Mahonia probably explains why I was veering towards Mahonia. Hilarious!
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Apr 28, 2016 3:21 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: JoJo
Texas (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Irises
Hibiscus Garden Art Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Dog Lover Daylilies
I really can't wait to see now. I certainly hope it survives now Hilarious!
Gardening is learning, learning, learning. That's the fun of them.
You're always learning !
Helen Mirren

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