I do believe these two are mammillaria heyderi and either weberbauerocereus johnstonii(but unlikely since it doesnt look like a espostoa guenterii) or some kind of haageocereus....



///EDIT: In case it helps, flowers on the mammillaria are white with a red/orange stripe//

Did they come labeled in anyway? The Mammillaria definitely could be what you think it is, but it is certainly not an easy plant to come by, so unless it came labeled that way I'd say it is hard to know for sure, given that there are certainly some others it looks like as well.

Labels ? In wholesale? Good one.
No,no,no...
They dont come with labels. Even if they did, itd still be probably wrong. cactiguide says M. heyderi subsp. meiacantha is "commonly found in some areas". Most are "unusual in collections". They were imported with a batch of pure mammilaria, either flat barrels similar to this one(but with bigger and longer spines) or with clusters of 3 Mammillaria karwinskiana ssp. nejapensis. I was almost tempted to buy the other barrels, but think this one had the best flowers(and fruit too, the others had dry duds...).
As for the other, it came together with weird euphorbia horrida, and some other unusual plants.
But dont take "common" in the US as reference, youd be surprised at how different the popularity can be...
They even changed their assortments almost entirely.
http://www.cactiguide.com/foru...
You cant find even half of the plants here in asortments in ubink, edelcactus or van der linden.
On a side note, mammilaria heyderi is listed there.....

In case youre wondering about the labels part, ive heard complaints, among the lines of:
cactus sp.(even on crassulaceae or euphorbia)
"rabits' hoof cactus", "banana beef cactus", or simply "fake nickname cactus".
Now there are some: Echeveria sp, Mammilaria sp, Etc, and i give them C- - for effort.
And of course in my country it would "potted flower"- and this one is for every plant from ferns to ficus......

As said it could be heyderii, but to me it could also be something else. There are a number of Mamms that look very similar to the plant you showed a picture of. So based on just that picture and no label you will never get better than a solid maybe.

However, given that you have that list I am again somewhat confused as to why you are asking for an ID for these plants, while apparently you have established an ID for these plants (at least for yourself) already. Maybe the question you should be asking is if people agree with your assessment based on the images and that list in the link...

Anyway, M. heyderii occurs in the wild here, but is still not commonly available at nurseries, so hence my suggesting it is not super commonly available. I guess it must have been seed grown as it is pretty hard to export these kind of plants from the US and Mexico even a relatively common one like this.

It is going to be pretty moisture sensitive as the areas where it occurs naturally tend to be super dry, so I'd be very careful with your watering and keep it as warm and in as bright light as possible.

I can't help id them, but M. heyderi ssp. hemisphaerica is native here in my pasture. Not in large quantities and I can't remember exactly how I determined it to be ssp. hemisphaerica but I believe it was the arrangement and number of spines. I tried, and am preparing to try again, growing it in a container during the winter months. The first time was not a success. Though it lives in the ground year round, growing in the container proved to be too cold. I have some that have spread into my mowing area and I will lift one of those and try it in a container with plans to move inside during the worst cold temperatures.

However, in the container they make more of a barrel, while in the ground here they usually are close to level with the soil surface. In wetter seasons, they will get high enough for the mower blades to shave the top. Normally, though, they are mower safe. Here's a photo of the one I tried in a container and of a couple growing wild.



The height of the one in the container is many times taller than it would have been had it remained in the pasture. I expect that was primarily due to the extra water and lack of any kind of competition, but it was also probably in a higher nutrient soil than its birthplace in the pasture and that may have contributed also. I've never seen one growing in the better quality soils in the pasture, only the poor soils.

I think one of yours resembles it, so maybe this will help. I think, though, the natives here have a somewhat limited geographical range. Yours is likely to be at least a different ssp.

Nice plants, Donald. Any chance of relocating the ones in the mowing part of the pasture to safer locales?

needrain said:I can't help id them, but M. heyderi ssp. hemisphaerica is native here in my pasture. Not in large quantities and I can't remember exactly how I determined it to be ssp. hemisphaerica but I believe it was the arrangement and number of spines. I tried, and am preparing to try again, growing it in a container during the winter months. The first time was not a success. Though it lives in the ground year round, growing in the container proved to be too cold. I have some that have spread into my mowing area and I will lift one of those and try it in a container with plans to move inside during the worst cold temperatures.

However, in the container they make more of a barrel, while in the ground here they usually are close to level with the soil surface. In wetter seasons, they will get high enough for the mower blades to shave the top. Normally, though, they are mower safe. Here's a photo of the one I tried in a container and of a couple growing wild.

• Biznaga Semiesferica (Mammillaria heyderi subsp. hemisphaerica)
• Uploaded by needrain

The height of the one in the container is many times taller than it would have been had it remained in the pasture. I expect that was primarily due to the extra water and lack of any kind of competition, but it was also probably in a higher nutrient soil than its birthplace in the pasture and that may have contributed also. I've never seen one growing in the better quality soils in the pasture, only the poor soils.

I think one of yours resembles it, so maybe this will help. I think, though, the natives here have a somewhat limited geographical range. Yours is likely to be at least a different ssp.

That's really cool to see the difference in growth between the "wild" cacti and the one you "domesticated". Thanks for the great info and for sharing!

mcvansoest said:Nice plants, Donald. Any chance of relocating the ones in the mowing part of the pasture to safer locales?

In spite of some rain the past couple of weeks, they are all really flat now and will probably remain that way unless we get an extended period of rainy weather next spring. I was out surveying some today and it's doubtful any are above 1/2" in height which is safe from the mower blades. That just leaves the wheels to damage them. I've considered moving them to safer locations, but of the 4 little barrel cacti that are native here, this seems to be the wildest one and least congenial to being disturbed. I think that at least for the time being they are better off where they are. My preference is to mow at a bit higher setting than most people. I had some on a bit of a uneven ground, but I think those are also safe with the higher blade setting. I may revisit it next spring because they are not plentiful on the property. I do think they have other locations in the area where they are more common. They aren't as showy as the other barrels, so folks ordinarily don't attempt to domesticate these. Either that or, like me, they find them a bit difficult.

For instance, folks tend to prefer the Escobaria vivipara var neo-mexicana as seen here this year. I plucked this out of the mowers path in 2013 and it changed to a larger container once. Prickly little thing, but puts on a show and seems happy in the container. This was June 2018. Sometimes every bud will bloom on the same day making for a one day show, but this year it spread them out over 10 days.

That is a good looking plant!

The Arizona version of M. heyderii also grows in a similar fashion and is really hard to spot in the wild as it is also hidden under the brush/grass. I looked up the plant on CITES and it is interesting if you include all the different ssp. the plant has a huge range and distribution and is therefore considered common and in the 'least concern' table, but what I hear from people who go out documenting plants in Arizona is that the AZ one is pretty scarce though of course it is somewhat hard to spot, so one can wonder what data the CITES people used to determine that it is so common.
Anyway, fun to hear from someone who has them growing on his land, and how you deal with protecting them.

I wouldn't exactly say what I do is protecting them. I avoid damaging them and certainly don't ever attack and destroy them like I do the native opuntia and the tasajillo. It would be an understatement to describe either of those as in any kind of danger, though. The native opuntia has aggressively increased county wide during the drought years. It's way ahead of the game between them and the farmers and ranchers. Battles are being fought still, but I suspect they have won the war. Maybe that increased gene pool will turn up some with a longer period for those spectacular blooms.

Some native opuntias in the pasture that I wish Stefan would come and take home with him


Some closeups of the blooms:



And, of course, the fruit - which is their weapon of mass destruction! Power in population expansion:


I'm aware that the opuntia is a food source and cover for a lot of wildlife. And, if you were desperate enough to deal with the spines, for people. The fruit makes great jelly - but you still have to deal with those spines. A couple of years ago my nephew had a recipe for mead using the fruit - those in the grocery stores here are called 'tuna pears' and are really good (and no prickles) - so we gathered a 5 gallon bucket or maybe two buckets full, using tongs to pick the fruit. I let him do that and kept my distance . I still had some prickles. Don't know how. He gave me a jar of the mead. It was drinkable, but not my favorite thing.

Mead is an acquired taste, for sure.

Yeah, I get the love hate relationship with Prickly Pears, unless you live in areas where they grow prolifically in the wild it is hard to understand the fact that they really are just weeds in terms of the ease with which they propagate and how hard they are to truly kill off. On the other hand when fully in flower it is a pretty awesome display and they can be an useful food source.

I have had both the pads and the fruit in a variety of forms, but those were the tuna pears that you find in the grocery store and the pads from O. ficus-indica (which is also one of the plant that produces the big tunas) which has been bred to an almost completely spineless form (almost being the operative word) to serve as cattle food originally. Young pads can be pretty tasty if prepared right and apparently are very helpful in regulating the body's sugar levels, but yeah if they did not come spineless I'd probably skip them too, the cleaning is way too much work.

My Grandfather made the mistake of taking a lawnmower to a Opuntia once.

mcvansoest said:As said it could be heyderii, but to me it could also be something else. There are a number of Mamms that look very similar to the plant you showed a picture of. So based on just that picture and no label you will never get better than a solid maybe.

However, given that you have that list I am again somewhat confused as to why you are asking for an ID for these plants, while apparently you have established an ID for these plants (at least for yourself) already. Maybe the question you should be asking is if people agree with your assessment based on the images and that list in the link...

Anyway, M. heyderii occurs in the wild here, but is still not commonly available at nurseries, so hence my suggesting it is not super commonly available. I guess it must have been seed grown as it is pretty hard to export these kind of plants from the US and Mexico even a relatively common one like this.

It is going to be pretty moisture sensitive as the areas where it occurs naturally tend to be super dry, so I'd be very careful with your watering and keep it as warm and in as bright light as possible.

Actually, ive no idea what the second one is. The trouble i have with iding plants, is that sometimes they choose new cultivars to produce. You may not beleive it, but i had an opuntia quitescens some time ago. I bought about 6 y/ago and havent seen one since.
Here is another kicker - theyve discontinued echinocereus production(except maybe for e.reinbachii, which is sold either with fake flowers or sombrero with googly eyes ) , euphorbia meloformis cant be found nowadays, same goes for matucana m., a lot of euphorbias, etc. Some plants (really common at your place) like pachycereus marginatus, astrophytum ornatum, astrophytum capricorne, lithops, etc.
are plants ive only seen once. Now , you may recall that i did buy said astrophytums recently, but they werent imports. They are locally produced in some vague nursery at the other end of the country, and most of their shipments are opuntia microdasys, mammilaria, and cyl.opuntia subulata. They do let out the occasional rarity(coryphantha, astrophytum, even echinocereus).Theyd be the ones in the red square pot, as opposed to t he round brown "dutch wholesale" pots.