Hey everybody

My local (ish) place for roses gets their roses from Pan American...which doesn't have the newest and best roses in their stable. Sigh. But I'm thinking of these...what are your thoughts? I want tons of fragrance and lots of blooms. Disease and zone aren't considerations since we get little disease pressure here and I over winter my roses in the garage.

1. St. Tropez
2. Big Purple
3. Chrysler Imperial
4. Crimson Glory
5. Granada
6. Miss All American Beauty (aka Maria Callas)
7. Red Peace
8. Whisky Mac
9. Petit Prince
10. Eternal Flame
11. Moonlight in Paris
12. Francis Meilland
13. Royal Kate...a Pan American variety
14. Gold Glow
15. Toulouse Lautrec
16. Angel Face
17. Potter and Moore
18. Prospero
19, Radio Times
20. St. Cecilia - what do you think of the myrrh fragrance?

I can get all of them...if they're worth it. For the Austins, I'd like to know if the flowers/branches are held up or if they sag.
Thanks so much!!
Carol

Chrysler Imperial should definitely meet your fragrance requirements, and even with my minimal care it bloomed almost continuously. I think it met its demise due to gophers. They tunneled under it and the dogs dug it up in the hunt.

Porkpal - So it's a great bloomer!! How tall did yours get? I'm guessing you're in zone 8? Rotten gophers!!


Carol

Mine was about 5' tall growing in partial shade. (I think I am in zone 9.)

That sounds like a great height..since mine will be shorter. Thank you so much?

Do you grow any more of mine? Pictures are always welcome!

Carol

If mildew is an issue in your conditions, take note that 'Granada' is known as a prolific mildewer. (If you don't have mildew as a problem, don't worry about it.)

Canadian_Rose said:Hey everybody

My local (ish) place for roses gets their roses from Pan American...which doesn't have the newest and best roses in their stable. Sigh. But I'm thinking of these...what are your thoughts? I want tons of fragrance and lots of blooms. Disease and zone aren't considerations since we get little disease pressure here and I over winter my roses in the garage.

1. St. Tropez
2. Big Purple
3. Chrysler Imperial
4. Crimson Glory
5. Granada
6. Miss All American Beauty (aka Maria Callas)
7. Red Peace
8. Whisky Mac
9. Petit Prince
10. Eternal Flame
11. Moonlight in Paris
12. Francis Meilland
13. Royal Kate...a Pan American variety
14. Gold Glow
15. Toulouse Lautrec
16. Angel Face
17. Potter and Moore
18. Prospero
19, Radio Times
20. St. Cecilia - what do you think of the myrrh fragrance?

I can get all of them...if they're worth it. For the Austins, I'd like to know if the flowers/branches are held up or if they sag.
Thanks so much!!
Carol

The only cultivar on youl list that I have is Eternal Flame, and it has been a very poor performer in my zone 6b garden for the two years that I have had it. A nearby rose, Winter Sun, grows very well, so the location seems ok. Also, Eternal Flame has been a very poor performer for a fellow gardener about ten miles north of my garden.

Sorry, but have not grown any of these but have heard good things about Potter and Moore. The myrrh fragrance on my Ambridge rose I didn't like but my assistant loved it. So to each their own. However, my Mary Magdalene has it as well, but it smells sweeter to me. On her, I like it.

I grow or have grown all but three of these (Royal Kate, Red Peace & Moonlight in Paris), but several of them weren't hardy for me so I can't tell how they'd do overwintered in a garage: Le Petit Prince, Gold Glow (at least on its first try), Radio Times, Prospero (on its second try but unlikely to be hardy) and surprisingly Potter and Moore (though it had a few small shoots after the winter before it died). Angel Face has a reputation for being a weak grower in just about any climate but the lavender color is nice. I can't believe it would be more than 1-2 feet even overwintered in a garage. Whisky Mac is also a notorious weak grower and I don't think it's your best bet. Francis Meilland is still deciding if she wants to overwinter on her second try and I've had a surprisingly hard time getting her established in the summers. Toulouse Lautrec is also very short when it survives and doesn't seem to rebound well from the winter. None of those are very robust bloomers obviously for me.
The most robust of those would probably be St. Cecilia who maintains virtually all her cane and pumps out some nice blooms off and on all summer. Chrysler Imperial and Crimson Glory are both classic reds that have stood the test of time and put out a decent flush every 6 weeks or so. If you're looking for the classic HT form, Miss All American Beauty is surprisingly tall and robust and it puts out the classic one bloom at the end of every cane a couple of times a year. Similar bloom habits from Eternal Flame and Big Purple for me. Not heavy bloomers but nice when you get them. St. Tropez is newer but looking to have more impressive bloom flushes at a time. Granada used to have some nice flushes but again being only sporadically hardy it spends all its time growing back for me.
So my entirely biased feedback would be among that list to go with C - St. Cecilia, Crimson Glory, Chrysler Imperial, and then supplement it with others for their bloom form and variety. Needless to say I'm no help on the fragrance of any of these, though CI is supposed to be nice.
Cynthia

Angel Face is a weak rose. I bought it for my best friend and it withered away to nothing in no time and that was with 4 green thumbs taking care of it.

JerJen - thanks to the heads up! I will knock that one off the list.

Csandt - that was helpful! That one's off the list

MustBnuts - thanks...I have enough roses with myrrh. I'm glad you've heard good things about Potter and Moore!!

Cynthia - Okay...good to know that Angel Face is a problem rose. That's off. Whisky Mac, Francis Meilland and Toulouse Lautrec are now gone. So I'll keep St. Cecilia, Chrysler Imperial, and Crimson Glory. I'll still keep thinking on the others.

Pepper - Angel Face is now double gone

So that's awesome help you've all given me!!
Thanks, everyone!

Canadian_Rose: Of the roses from your list which I have grown in the past, I am on the East Coast (can get down to-20C) and have been growing roses for a long, long time, and I have "moved the envelope" as far as it could be moved with respect to growing non-zone compatible Roses, and I have an unheated greenhouse as well, and I respectfully suggest you rule out the following from your list:
#s: 2,3,4,5,7,8,12,15(never), and 16. If you had a longer growing season in Calgary for anything, it would be a different story - you just had snow a few days ago and your Spring arrives late. Would I just leave this post after saying the above??? Never!! Been where you are now, still am, and will still keep trying, so here are my respectfully-submitted thoughts:
Firstly: The "Canadian" roses series are very hardy and can be planted in the ground where you are. While most of them are once-only blooming, they are very hardy, including all the "Morden" roses as well.
Secondly: I think you have an even better option for in-ground roses - the "Carpet" roses. Certainly worth a try, grown by PanAm but offered through Costco delivered right to your door, bare root. They bloom from late June on, continuously, totally disease free, and an unbelievable number of blooms, beautiful high-centered blooms. Four or five colours, the crimson red is unbelievable! One is supposed to take grass shears in the Spring, and just lop off a third of the canes-never got to it this spring, and they are five feet high, and even in a downpour, still great! Just went out in the pouring rain to snap these pics, a little blurred (as I am right now) LOL!


Thirdly: If you want to "move the envelope" on any fragrant HT you want, do it, even if you only get one season from it!!!!! And you will unless it is really disease-prone, and even still, chances are it will bloom before it goes to pieces. Take pictures of the blooms, worth the $10-15$. Of the roses you listed, a lot are available from Wallymart, buy them, pot them up and put them, on the sunniest patio/deck you have!!! Hill them up in the pots when the season is over, and put them in the garage! If they don't survive, who cares, you have the memories and the pics. So many available, "Peace", "Chicago Peace", "Glowing Peace" anbd most of those that you listed. Just do it!! Cheers!

Frank - That was soooo kind of you to go take pictures (in the rain!!!) for me!!
I think you missed the part that I overwinter my roses in my garage. I've gone up to zone 7 (blankets, etc.) for my roses which are potted. I have about 50 roses in the garage right now. So zone doesn't matter at all. So bearing this in mind...can you make recommendations on bloomability and fragrance? Plus I don't want blooms that hold their heads downward. Thank you so much!!
Carol

Carol,

I loooove Moonlight In Paris. It's been really disease resistant for me. The flower color is gorgeous, just glows in the garden, it starts off as a golden apricot and then ages with a pink peachy color mixed in. The form of the flowers are gorgeous as well. Though I haven't had it long, it's definitely a very favorite of mine.

I don't agree that Angel Face is weak. Mine is between 40 and 50 years old and has weathered many a tough winter. It is, however, very black spot prone. The blooms are beautiful and the fragrance wonderful if you like to spray regularly.

My favorite one on your list is Granada. Not that it's super vigorous or disease free but because when it blooms those bright cheerful colors are so lovely.

Carly - those are sigh-able pictures!!! They are absolutely beautiful!!! But the main question...what do you think of the fragrance?

Seil - I don't spray. I can only think of 2 roses that ever had BS for me....Barbra Streisand and Royal Amethyst...I got rid of them for that reason. They're in the same color family as Angel Face...so I'm thinking BS may be a problem for me with AF. I can't believe yours is that old!!! Is it huge? That is just incredible!! I really would love to get Granada! I agree...it looks so bright and cheerful!! Any thoughts on fragrance?

Carol

Carol, I absolutely LOVE the fragrance, it's fruity and spicy. Very nice. It's not super strong but definitely noticeable and noteworthy.

Carly - Thank you!! Yes, I don't need the fragrance to be super strong...just wonderful in some way. My sort of local-ish greenhouse (3 hours away...we drive there every spring to get roses) gets roses from Pan American nursery (not the most exciting roses offerred...but... ) offers Moonlight in Paris. Soooo if the local greenhouse orders it from Pan American then I will buy it! Thank you very much!

I like your list. Here's my take on the ones I know something about.
Big Purple---Nice, strong bush that blooms regularly all during the season. You'll love the blooms on nice strong canes. And it smells good. Let the bush bloom and just remove the blooms during the first year.
Chrysler Imperial---Not exactly the most beautiful bush around but once you smell the bloom, you'll forget what the bush looks like.
Crimson Glory---See above.
Granada---I like Granada. Nice bush. Beautiful blooms that smell great. If you have a Powdery Mildew season, just wash the bush off every morning.
Miss All American Beauty---Nice blooms on weak stems.
Whisky Mac---If you can get it on an under stock, GET IT!!! I grew it in central Fl. for years. Now I can't find it. If I could find it, I would order 5 bush's for my garden.
Angel Face---Beautiful Blooms on a black spot prone bush. I spray and it still wouldn't stay clean.

Ken - thank you so much! That was a really great summary! I was thinking of getting MAAB...but now I won't...I hate weak stems. I will definitely get Whisky Mac if they offer that one (here's hoping!), Big Purple...and I'm thinking about Chrysler Imperial and Granada. Oh this is so fun!!
Carol