I seem to remember that maybe there were going to be some fields in the Plant Database that would be unique to just certain genuses or groups, like "Daylilies" or "Tomatoes".

Dave, did you wind up creating such an option? If 'yes', I would propose these somewhat standard fields for "tomatoes". What do y'all think?

And it might be desirable to keep the database uncluttered. But the existing fields often miss the mark for tomatoes: for example, maybe they ARE perennials in Zone 11 and warmer, and have yellow blooms.

But usually, if you are looking for a tomato variety to try, you're more interested in "early vs late", color, flavor, and heat tolerance or cold tolerance. ("Cold tolerance" not in the sense of over-wintering as a perennial, but fruiting and holding good flavor through a cool spell.)

I know there are free-text fields under "Fruit, Other" and "foliage, Other". But they aren't standardized or suitable for searching.

Perhaps if they are check-boxes or radio buttons or fixed-meaning numeric fields, we will be able to search and sort on them. Then you could search for things like:
- "Cherry"
- plus "Determinate"
- plus "OP"
- plus
- "Extra Early"
- plus "Orange"
- plus "Cold-Tolerant"

Proposed fields for Tomatoes (Solanum lycopersicum ):

1. OP or F1 Hybrid

2. Earliness: Ultra-early / Extra-early / Early / Mid-season / Late

3. Climate Tolerance: cold-tolerant / heat-tolerant / cold-sensitive / heat-sensitive

4. Mode of growth: Determinate / Indeterminate / Semi-determinate
(The existing "Spread" field would be good for holding "4 foot - 6 foot vines")

5. potato leaf / regular leaf

6. fruit size: grape, cherry, small, med or large
or:
diameter in inches (# to # field) (each comment changes the max or min)
weight range in ounces (# to # field) (each comment changes the max or min)

7. fruit color - free text or :
- red
- orange
- yellow
- gold
- pink
- purple (probably allow multiple checks, hence red + orange)
- dark
- whiteish
- other - free text

8. fruit shape - globe beefsteak plum

9. flavor field: very subjective, so maybe each new comment could add a row

10. Best uses: paste, sauce, salsa, salad, slicing, snacking

I love this idea and it would be very helpful. We do have the ability to set custom data fields for plant types, and we can then let people search on these characteristics. I'll setup the "Tomatoes Database" to contain these data fields. If anybody wants to add or remove from your list above, please speak up!

Under 'best uses' I'd like to see 'drying' and 'canning.'
I'd delete 'salsa' since, in my experience, nearly any tomato can be used in salsa.

Disease Resistance?

krancmm said:Disease Resistance?

Yes. Should it be a text field, or a series of checkboxes? If the latter, then we'll need a list of all the options available.

Thanks, Dave!

Removing "salsa" sounds good. Someone had asked me what varieties were best for salsa, and I didn't know.

Under "fruit size", I think the simpler option is best: instead of "inches" or "ounces", just a set of radio button "currant / grape / cherry / small / medium / large". Perhaps a mouse-over should pop up a note that "large" was heavier than one pound.

Would you like me to search around and try to find standard descriptions of sizes?

(I just found one source that claimed a grape tomato was the same size as a cherry, but plum shaped! That sounded wrong to me.)

Here are some disease-resistances as listed by Territorial:

ASC - Alternaria Stem Canker
EB - end blight
F1 - Fusarium Wilt, Race 1
F2 - Fusarium Wilt, Race 2 (I usually see these just listed as "F")
LB - Late Blight, Types US8 US11
N - Nematodes
St - Stemphylium - gray leaf spot
TMV - Tobacco Mosaic Virus
ToMV - Tomato Mosaic Virus, Styrains 0, 1 and 12
V - Verticillium Wilt, Race 1

(Even with FireFox, I haven't been able to get back to Tatania's TomatoBase. That's where I would look for "definitive" definitions of tomato terms. The ":88" in the URL defeats me. I need to look up (again) what security settings block that port.)

This is great, Rick, thank you. I think the sizes you proposed are fine, but I would add" Gigantic" after Large. There are some that are bred specifically to win "Largest Tomato" contests (I know because I grew one and won a $100 prize at the local Tomato Fest!)

Typical TX tomato? Do you happen to have a pic?

Ya know, it's tragic but I never did take a photo!! But it was 2.5 pounds and the variety was "Delicious". It was not delicious, though. It was a waste of tomato except that it won the largest tomato contest!

Whoa! So good for salsa made in New York City!

And I found other codes for the same disease-resistance in Johnny's and Totally Tomatoes. Some are the same; others not. At least 1 (Late Blight) isn't in Totally Tomatoes at all.

And at least one, Southern Blight is listed by Johnny's as Southern Corn Leaf Blight -SCLB even though it affects tomatoes as well as other crops, is only listed by them.

I presume we need to cross-reference various seed sources so a checkbox lists the codes used by various seed sellers.
For instance, FF is used by Totally Tomatoes for Fusarium Wilt - Races 1 & 2; F2 by Johnny's for Fusarium Wilt - Races 1 & 2; F2 by Park's for Fusarium Wilt - Race 2; from above Territorial F2 is only for Race 2 as is Park's.

What do you need from Tatania's TomatoBase? I just got there with IE9 - no problem.

I don't think we need to use those abbreviations. We just need to decide what the list of maladies will be and then list them. Abbreviations are helpful in a garden catalog but completely un-necessary with an online database.

Had to think about that for a moment...

If checkbox is for Fusarium Wilt - Race 2, the searcher will know that cultivar has that resistance no matter where they purchase it. Got it now.

Two-and-a-half pounds IS gigantic! Tomato/pumpkin hybrid? (wink)

The largest I've heard of was "Omar's Lebanese", allegedly 1-3 pounds.

>> What do you need from Tatania's TomatoBase? I just got there with IE9 - no problem.

I was going to look for more disease resistances, and also to see what size rangees she defines as "grape-cherry-small-medium-large-gigantic".

For example, I think Stupice qualifies as "small", (from looking at them), and I see someone listed the fruits as 2 inch diameter, or 2-4 ounces.

I have IE7 at work, and now FireFox at home. IE7 also has trouble adding to Plant Lists.

From GrowTomatoes.com: There are three basic sizes of fruit determined essentially by weight: beefsteak, cherry, and grape (cherry and grape are frequently considered one size type and the intermediate between beefsteak and cherry is called “cocktail”), and two shapes, oxheart and plum (Roma).

The size of a tomato fruit is determined by either its diameter or weight. The weight classes are: 2 to 5 oz, 6 to 10 oz, and greater than 10 oz. Some tomato varieties can produce fruits greater than 16 oz. Beefsteak varieties produce fruit 10 oz or greater in weight.

The diameter (millimeters, mm) fruit classifications are: extra small, 48-54 mm; small, 54-58, medium; 58-64, large, 64-73; extra large, 73-88; maximum large, >88 mm.

From Tatania's TomatoBase: 'Stupice', small, potato leaf - grower experiences (both from British Columbia) 1 lists 1-2oz; other 3-4oz.

Couldn't find a listing of diseases or any definition of size in the catalog or search box on that site. Sorry

Thanks, Monica!

Dave, I vote for whatever you think is best and most recognizable.

(It seemed to me that "cherry" is smaller than 2" or 2 ounces ... maybe those sizes were subdivisions of the "beefsteak" size class? And I used to think that "beefsteak" was a shape!)

I like the sound of "cocktail tomato", but I've not yet seen one in a martini.


extra small, 48-54 mm; - - - 1.89" - 2.13"
small, 54-58, - - - 2.13" - 2.28"
medium; 58-64, - - - 2.28" - 2.52"
large, 64-73; - - - 1.52" - 2.87
extra large, 73-88; - - - 2.87 - 3.46"
maximum large, >88 mm. - - - > 3.46"

So where does my favorite, 'Mexico Midget', fit? It's only 1/2" or so and there are plenty of others less than, say, 1.5". Category "super small"?

BTW, the numbers will be rounded, won't they, please??

Is it possible to include any generic names with the sizes without compromising accuracy?
I don't do tomatoes, although I've been growing them for a couple of years, so I don't know about the sizes. I've never seen a cherry or grape tomato at anywhere near ~2" dia. What's sold locally are <1" for grape and 1"+ a bit for cherry.