Peppers, cucumbers F1, what is a meaning of symbol F1 ?

An F1 Hybrid (also known as filial 1 hybrid) is the first filial generation of offspring of distinctly different parental types. F1 hybrids are used in genetics, and in selective breeding, where it may appear as F1 crossbreed. The term is sometimes written with a subscript, as F1 hybrid.

F1 Hybrids can either be stable or unstable. If they are stable each time the parents are crossed they produce the same thing. If they are unstable then what you get is a total crap shoot. Usually something like one or the other parent or something else in their genetic makeup.

Stable F1 Hybrids are marketable. Things like Sun Gold tomatoes for instance. But subsequent generations are almost never stable. They are a total genetic crap shoot. So saving seeds is worthless.

This is why many people choose to grow Heirloom varieties. Because they breed true from seed. So saved seeds will breed the same plant and fruit.

I've never been clear on what criteria determines an 'heirloom' so I just go with either 'hybrid' or 'open-pollinated' (which also means saved seed will come true). How does one determine if a hybrid is stable or not? I've had good luck with (for example) Sun Sugar tomatoes until the last two years when the taste has taken a definite down-turn. Not nearly as sweet.

Bonehead said:How does one determine if a hybrid is stable or not?

An F1 hybrid is stable if the subsequent generations of interbreeding resemble it. These generations are called F2, F3 and so forth. The offspring of an F1 plant crossed with another F1 plant is F2. If the F2 generation resembles the F1 generation, the hybrid is stable. Over many generations of interbreeding (each season would be one iteration) there is quite a bit of shaking of the genetic dice, and many opportunities for some of the offspring to change. I suspect that much of the F1 hybrid seed available for sale out there is known not to breed true, which helps ensure its money-making ability down the road.

Bonehead said:I've never been clear on what criteria determines an 'heirloom' so I just go with either 'hybrid' or 'open-pollinated' (which also means saved seed will come true). How does one determine if a hybrid is stable or not? I've had good luck with (for example) Sun Sugar tomatoes until the last two years when the taste has taken a definite down-turn. Not nearly as sweet.

F1's Hybrids only grow true when you plant them. They do not breed true in subsequent generations.

Open Pollinated is supposed to mean; An Heirloom or stabilized Inbred Hybrid line has been isolated together with others of identical genetics. All of which breed true to seed. And were allowed to self pollinate and even cross pollinate to produce seed.

Open Pollinated F1 hybrids do not breed true. That is, the F1 itself which is marketable because it produces a consistent fruit or vegetable every time. Seeds saved from those fruit or vegetables do not breed true.

This is why I do not buy F1 Hybrids from eBay sellers who produce their own seed. A seller who buys bulk seeds or who is the original maker and sells on eBay, Yes. But not from backyard gardeners who have no idea that the seeds produced from such fruits and vegetables will produce something different than what they grew and ate.

Baja_Costero said:

An F1 hybrid is stable if the subsequent generations of interbreeding resemble it. These generations are called F2, F3 and so forth. The offspring of an F1 plant crossed with another F1 plant is F2. If the F2 generation resembles the F1 generation, the hybrid is stable. Over many generations of interbreeding (each season would be one iteration) there is quite a bit of shaking of the genetic dice, and many opportunities for some of the offspring to change. I suspect that much of the F1 hybrid seed available for sale out there is known not to breed true, which helps insure its money-making ability down the road.

I don't disagree but want to clarify.

It does happen but it's rare that an F2 generation from an F1 Hybrid will universally breed true to the F1. When this does happen. It's not a hit or miss thing and it is well known. And those that are known to be stable from the start with all of the subsequent generations breeding true. Are not called F1's even if they in fact are. They are usually called a stable/stabilized Hybrid or if breeding is necessary to get to that point they are called an Inbred line.

However many F1's that consistently produce like offspring when planted seam to be resistant to being stabilized through inbreeding.