Lilies forum: Help!

Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
Views: 2465, Replies: 35 » Jump to the end
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
Image
bearsearch
May 27, 2012 12:19 PM CST
The pictures below are of my Arabian Red and Casa Blanca lilies, the Casa Blanca I've had for years and the Arabian red were just purchased last fall. I'm wondering if they are infected with virus or is the veining in the leaves a cultural problem. I first noticed the veining in the Casa Blanca last summer so I fed them and in the fall moved them to a spot no other lilies have been. This spring they are worse than ever and some are completely yellow. The Arabian Red were purchased from a grower and not a big box store or questionable mass marketer so I would not expect to be getting virus infected plants but you never can tell. Are these lilies salvageable or should I just get rid of them now? I'd hate to think anyone is knowingly selling virus infected plants.

Thumb of 2012-05-27/bearsearch/fbb9bb Arabian Red Thumb of 2012-05-27/bearsearch/cff2de Arabian Red


Thumb of 2012-05-27/bearsearch/a166a9 Casa Blanca Thumb of 2012-05-27/bearsearch/93d10d Casa Blanca
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
Image
Moby
May 27, 2012 1:57 PM CST
Your lilies are OK! When you see a regular pattern like that, it is due to mineral deficiency. Virus had an irregular pattern.
How is your pH? I have this problem with lilies that I have growing along my gravel driveway where the pH is between 8-9. Epsom salts helps in the short term, and in my case I've had to work a considerable amount of elemental sulphur in to the soil.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
Image
bearsearch
May 27, 2012 4:18 PM CST
Thanks Moby. So you think the soil is too alkaline, that would make sense as the bed the Casa Blanca were in has pieces of broken concrete edging. I have some horticultural sulphur I can use, would rhododendron fertilizer help too?
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
May 27, 2012 7:51 PM CST
Moby's right. Those are typical shots of chlorosis, not virus. In fact, I have some bad cases here too, mostly on my martagons, and not on orientals. It all showed up severely after a couple days of 3 inches of rain (total). Since martagons are not so pH sensitive, I think it is due to fast growth and competition with calcium in temporarily waterlogged soil. They always will recover by themselves in time, but Epsom salt applied heavily to the soil does hasten the comeback. This time I am trying foliar application only at 1 tablespoon per gallon water.

Lilium martagon
Thumb of 2012-05-28/Leftwood/7d3f0f

Lilium tsingtauense/distichum cross
Thumb of 2012-05-28/Leftwood/b740e6

Lilium 'Nepara'
Thumb of 2012-05-28/Leftwood/8c2e30

Lilium canadense
Thumb of 2012-05-28/Leftwood/cc0470
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
Image
Moby
May 27, 2012 7:58 PM CST
That poor Nepara looks like it's going to faint dead away!
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
Image
bearsearch
May 28, 2012 6:34 AM CST
Thanks Moby and Rick, I'll give them some epsom salts. What concentration do you use for the soil drench? The same as you are using for the foliar spray or a little stronger? I just noticed some of this same marking on a few martagons as well.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
May 28, 2012 7:31 AM CST
I think there are can be many causes for chlorosis such as your pictures show. My experience is that most often its a temporary condition and resolves itself in a month or two--or at least no more than an annual event. I think the key here is to not jump to any fast conclusions or make any hasty radical changes. But a little Epsom Salts is OK to do right now. If your soil is dry enough, make up a gallon or so of Epsom solution and water in. If its too wet, then do what Rick is doing. Then wait a week or so to see the results. I don't think your plant condition is all that unusual-- Casa Blancas grow so fast, sometimes they tend to get a little blotchie from time to time--mine do.

Whatever you do, don't monkey around with you soil pH abruptly; overreacting too quickly can lead to a ton of problems if not done properly or if done with 'I think it needs sulfur' approach-- without first haveing a years worth of symptoms, and second, haveing some numbers to back it up. Then, and only then, would I begin to make ammendments 'slowly' over the next two years.

Edit: In my walk around this morning I noticed my El Condor grew so much the last couple nights, it too looks just like your condition. I'm going to let this take care of itself. If you want to add Epsom salts, a quarter cup to a half cup per gallon depending on the size/area of the plant. Some may use more. Epsom Salts won't affect your pH significantly.





[Last edited by Roosterlorn - May 28, 2012 8:35 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #263795 (7)
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
Image
Moby
May 28, 2012 10:23 AM CST
There's good advice here, Brian. The epsom salts are like giving a plant a vitamin for its health. Sulphur is something given to affect a change in the soil, if that is what is needed for the plants growing there.

The only area that I have suitable for martagons is along my driveway. Soil that has 80 years of lime leached into it, and it will keep leaching, so this is where the sulphur comes in. A couple martys seem unaffected by the high pH, as are the irises, daylilies and hostas. Good, healthy soil is the best thing you can do for plants. The most important thing is to know what the likely problem is and why you are having it.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Image
pardalinum
May 28, 2012 11:03 AM CST

Moderator

For those who have this problem with some of their lilies and are using epsom salt: Could you please take some photos over the next couple of weeks showing improvement from the treatment?

Lorn/Lefty (non-treaters): Likewise, could we get a few photos over the next few weeks showing improvement without treatment?

This subject of chlorosis vs. virus comes up every year on every lily forum I have been on. I would like to have some posts/photos showing before and after that I can star for future reference when the subject comes up.
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
Image
bearsearch
May 28, 2012 1:45 PM CST
The Casa Blanca were like that all summer last year that's why I moved them. I also have Stargazer in the same area and they have not shown any signs of this at all, not even this year so far. I'm going to try the epsom salt before I do anything at all to my soil as I have a lot of plants in that area that are very happy with the conditions that are there already including some cypripedium so I don't want to mess around with what is working.
[Last edited by bearsearch - May 29, 2012 10:00 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #263997 (10)
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
Image
Moby
May 28, 2012 2:42 PM CST
Brian, your lilies should make an excellent study. Smiling

I haven't taken any pics lately as this is an ongoing problem, but here are before and after pics. The second was taken 2-3 weeks after treatment with Epsom salts. You can see that the lily is darker green overall and the veining less obvious.
Thumb of 2012-05-28/Moby/08d03c Thumb of 2012-05-28/Moby/a26a98
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
May 28, 2012 8:19 PM CST
But without a control, it's hard to know if the lily is just recovering on its own, or if the epsom salt is the cure.

Consequently, it will be hard to get a real feel for epsom salt's efficacy, but it will be interesting to get the general feeling of this group.

Lorn, do you remember where you got the quarter to half cup per gallon recommendation for soil application? Seems like an extra lot for a non-major nutrient, but I really don't know.

I might also expand on Lorn's mention that there can be many causes of chlorosis. Remember epsom salt is not epsom salts. It is only one chemical compond: magnesium sulphate (MgSO4). It will not, for instance, cure an iron deficiency, which is another common cause of chlorosis. In fact, chelated iron as a foliar spray or soil drench would be a good additions to any testing going on.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
May 29, 2012 8:34 AM CST
Rick, its been a while (in the 60s), but if I remember correctly, it came out of an old rose book at the time. Also, I believe it was printed on the side of the boxes (the old orange and blue cartons of REXALL drug stores back then and the recommended use was 8 ounces/gallon for every 4 sq. ft. of rose space. Now, roses and lilies are two different characturs and i'm not sure if Mg in excess can be toxic with lilies, but I do know that it is one of the quickest depleting essential elements in a lily garden--because we like to use fast drainage soil, burn our stems and so on, as is the GOOD POINT you made about assumed Mg loss and the 3 in. rainfall.

Plants must consume an awful lot of it because its at the center of every chlorophyl molecule and the instant there becomes even the slightest deficiency of it--the yellowing shows up, especially in the lower, older leaves first. Mg is highly mobile within the plant itself and it will pull Mg from the older bottom leaves in favor to the younger more productive ones when needed so when one sees temporary chlorosis in the top leaves--it often goes away because of plants ability to utilize its resources efficiently. Brian talks about Casa Blanca--Thats a pretty big plant. A group of three or four might consume a pretty good amount. My experience with Casa Blanca is that its very prone to a blochie (sp) appearance because it grows so fast that all the necessary ingredients of 'green' can't keep up.

But Mg deficiency is not the only cause of Chlorosis. As Rick stated, Iron (Fe) deficiency is the next big one, although thats not lost as fast in a garden as Mg is. Edit added: pH,too, plays an important role with the uptake of many essential micro nutrients, but most problems we solve unknowingly by adding good compost. Chlorosis can be very complicated and complex with many causual factors or as simple as a newly planted bulb that is having a difficult time adapting to its new setting while the one right next to it is 'just lovin it'.

Rick, your right--it's epsom salt, not epsom salts. I think the two are used so interchangably by the general public that I even I go back anf forth without even realizing it anymore.
[Last edited by Roosterlorn - May 29, 2012 9:04 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #264399 (13)
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
May 29, 2012 2:00 PM CST
Rick, I agree with your contol study. Something to think about would be for you and I to run a group of 10 Casa Blanca clones in a row sometime and do 5 treated vs 5 untreated (after symptoms) for a period of 3 years so. We could work up 20 scales this fall if you would like to do this.

But I really like Connies concept of getting many different views of many different cultivars from such a broad base that only a forum like this would provide. I'm very interested in both these ideas!
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jun 1, 2012 6:45 AM CST
Sorry, I don't have room. I have oodles (oodles!!!) of seedlings aching to get into the ground from pots already, and nowhere to put them. And my lilies in pots seldom get chlorotic, so a controlled experiment would need to be in terra firma for me. I am actually elated that a batch of iris crosses from SIGNA are duds because now I can remove them and have some more room!
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jun 2, 2012 6:02 AM CST
I Know. I'm pushed to the limit myself with my 'pet' seeding projects and keeping up with what I currently have growing and everything that you know goes along with that. With me its 'time'. It's often said: "where does it stop? Well, it stops when a person 'just can't handle' anymore-- while still keeping a hobby enjoyable--and with me its the standpoint of time--not the land space.

I'm still 'greedy' on such a study, however. If I have time this Fall, I just may start one. In the meantime tho, before and after pictures and pictures of untreated over time-- from this broad forum base is still interesting and valuable.
Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Image
gwhizz
Jun 5, 2012 3:02 AM CST
Yes- where does it stop! Confused I think it will stop when i stop,..,
lily freaks are not geeks!
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jun 5, 2012 3:53 AM CST
Well, the problem is,too--if you're a 'jack of all trades' type person--once you retire, you become many things to many people because you become more available. I've been trying to work up another 80ft X 30ft garden for Fall planting so it can normalize but there's so much other jumping back and forth its dragged out longer.

Anthony, did you ever have any seeds sprout and come up albino? One of my NALS crosses had quite a few do that.

[Last edited by Roosterlorn - Jun 5, 2012 4:14 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #267902 (18)
Name: Øystein Hermansen
Østfold,Norway (Zone 5b)
Image
grapus
Jun 6, 2012 12:08 AM CST
I too got some albino seedlings, never seen that on lilies before. Lilke you the seeds come from NALS last year.
Ille bra,se.
Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Image
gwhizz
Jun 6, 2012 2:34 AM CST
Yes Lorn, I did,..,most recently in fact. Buggys ,Mabel Violet crosses[which i had a lot of]- anything albino, didnt survive.,.,,.Ah Grapus, !! did you dig your way out of the lily shoots?....some of your seedling bulbs are going great guns!!! Thumbs up
lily freaks are not geeks!

Page 1 of 2 • 1 2

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Lilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by nativeplantlover and is called "Bumble Veronica Pink"