Aroids forum: Sauromatum venosum

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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Jun 2, 2012 5:01 PM CST

Plants Admin

I'm curing about the anatomy of this inflorescence. The cut away is from day 2 of bloom.

Is the entire area between the pollen and the polyp-looking structures sterile? What are the polyp-looking structures. Where are the female flowers? I'm confused. Blinking
Evan
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
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LariAnn
Jun 3, 2012 1:49 PM CST

Moderator

Evan,

The female flowers should be at the very base of the spadix, below the polyp-looking structures. If this plant should, in fact, be in the genus Typhonium, then that is the typical structure of the spadix on Typhonium, although I am surprised to see a sterile section without polyps between the male flower area and the female flower area. In some Typhonium species, the "polyps" are so extensive as the almost completely cover up the female flowers. Because of this, those Typhonium species are a bit challenging to pollinate, especially because the area of the spathe surrounding the female flowers is either on or slightly below soil level!

LariAnn
Aroidia Research
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Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 3, 2012 1:51 PM CST

Moderator

BTW, I sure wish I had that bloom here as I would be pollinating some of my Typhonium hybrids with that pollen!

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Jun 3, 2012 2:20 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks Lari Ann. Five were planted this Spring and only these two have bloomed. The spathe on the other snapped off just above the male flower area but both opened on 1 June. Given the time line and some rain is this pollen usable/mailable?

Given the number of pollinators dead in the Spathe is this indicative of self fertilization?
Evan
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 4, 2012 7:26 AM CST

Moderator

Evan,

If collected on emergence and kept dry (over silica gel) in the fridge, the pollen may have been usable and mailable, but if you got rain, it probably got too wet if it didn't wash away altogether. Thanks for the offer, though.

If the blooms both opened at the same time, it is unlikely that cross pollination could have occurred because both would have been at male anthesis at the same time. The blooms would have had to have opened one after the other in order for any chance of pollination to have occurred.

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Jun 4, 2012 12:48 PM CST

Plants Admin

Hi Lari Ann,
My apologies for bombarding you with questions. Is the sequenced opening for successful pollination true of most Aroids and not just Typhonium venosum? Are female flowers receptive for an extended period of time?

Lastly how is the Typhonium breeding going?
Evan
[Last edited by eclayne - Aug 30, 2012 12:39 PM (+)]
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Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 5, 2012 7:54 AM CST

Moderator

Evan,

Yes, it is generally true that in Aroids the female flowers are receptive first, then on male anthesis (pollen drop) the female flowers are no longer receptive. The female flowers are usually only receptive for about a day - sometimes just a few hours, although in some cases you can "pre-pollinate" (i.e. apply pollen prior to female receptivity) and get successful take - this is true of Caladiums and may be true for some other genera. Many Aroid blooms signal female receptivity by an increase in temperature of the spadix - some dramatically so.

I've come up with some pretty exciting Typhonium hybrids using T. trilobatum as my primary breeding platform. I've got silvery veins and/or maroon spots on a plant of the size of T. trilobatum, plus various types of leaf divisions, from fully pedatisect to trilobed and some in between (see picture below). I do want to get S. venosum involved, though, as a successful cross with it would yield, potentially, some even more spectacular progeny.

Thumb of 2012-06-05/LariAnn/7dba30

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
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Iochroma
Jun 6, 2012 9:43 AM CST
Wow, LariAnn, those are some beauties!

I have noticed that there are some forms of T. venosum that have white markings on the leaves, and others that do not. I have not seen any cultivar names associated with these marked types. Do you know of any?

It also seems there is some variation in flower color and form, yet no named cv.s... seems like there should be.

The only cultivar I have seen is 'Indian Giant' from Brian's Botanicals on eBay.

Also, really enjoy your articles - thanks for your good work and writings.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Jun 6, 2012 10:32 AM CST

Plants Admin

LariAnn,

Being in z6 the Typhonium work you're doing is very exiting, particularly as your involving T. venosum. Something I can overwinter as a dormant tuber is exciting. Is it true that T. trilobatum goes dormant as well? Is there one or two hybrids in your photo? Beautiful venation pattern.

Hi Dave!
Evan
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 6, 2012 12:36 PM CST

Moderator

Evan,
Yes, T. trilobatum does go dormant, and there are actually four hybrids in my picture. I have others not pictured, some much larger than the ones pictured and with coloration as well. They got this large from seed (seed germinated in summer of 2010, went dormant in Fall, then grew all summer in 2011, then went dormant, and now Spring 2012. A few bloomed in 2011 but they were in a 2 gallon community pot at that time. Even so, some of the tubers grew to amazing size by the end of summer 2011, hence the large plants I have now.

Dave,
Thanks for the compliments! I've not seen any T. venosum varieties with coloration, but I'm intending to change that as soon as I get my hands on a blooming size specimen (hopefully this year, but if not, next year). Success will mean a new day in Typhoniums - imagine a plant the size of T. venosum with silver veins and red spots on the leaves, and hardy. That's where I'm headed.

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
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Iochroma
Jun 6, 2012 11:35 PM CST
I just read the paper:
A phylogeny of the Areae (Araceae) implies that Typhonium, Sauromatum, and the Australian species of Typhonium are distinct clades
by: Cusimano, Natalie; Barrett, Matthew D; Hetterscheid, Wilbert L.A.; and Renner, Susanne S.
in Taxon, Volume 59, Number 2, April 2010 , pp. 439-447(9)

This establishes with molecular data, and morhological support, that the plant we may know as Sauromatum guttatum, is properly: Sauromatum venosum (Dryand. ex Ait.) Kunth ... and it does not belong in Typhonium.

You can read the paper here: http://www.umsl.edu/~renners/Cusimano_Typhonium_2010.pdf

eclayne said:I'm curing about the anatomy of this inflorescence. The cut away is from day 2 of bloom.

Is the entire area between the pollen and the polyp-looking structures sterile? What are the polyp-looking structures. Where are the female flowers? I'm confused. Blinking


Evan, there are very good illustrations of the various flower forms in the genera in that pdf.

I also found there is a lot of research that has been carried out on the heating mechanisms in the flowers of S. venosum. Aren't Aroids great?
[Last edited by Iochroma - Jun 7, 2012 5:41 AM (+)]
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Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 7, 2012 12:21 PM CST

Moderator

Dave,
Thanks for the link to the paper - very interesting indeed! Of course, that still won't deter me from doing my thing to see if I can get a hybrid between clades. They may be compatible enough to provide an F1 even if that F1 turns out to be sterile.

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
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Iochroma
Jun 7, 2012 4:13 PM CST
Glad you found the paper valuable LariAnn. I hope you can make some wild crosses.

Of course, lots of us would like to see new plants with some frost-hardiness, so I'm thinking about S. venosum with Dracunculus or crosses with (what was) T. giganteum or maybe your new T. trilobatums...
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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eclayne
Jun 9, 2012 8:33 PM CST

Plants Admin

Dave, I forgot to thank you for the link. Great information, at least that which I understood.
Evan
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
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Iochroma
Jun 11, 2012 9:22 AM CST
I hear you Evan; that genetic analysis is a bit daunting, but the conclusions are digestible, if taken in small bites. Did you like the flower comparisons? It was fascinating to me, but I haven't had any of those species, so they were all new.
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jun 11, 2012 11:19 AM CST

Moderator

Well, with Evan sending me a blooming size S. venosum tuber, plus the two blooming size T. giganteum I have in the pipeline, my T. trilobatum hybrids are going to be busy indeed! If I get take on any of them, I will report it here first!
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
San Francisco Bay area (Zone 9a)
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Iochroma
Jun 11, 2012 8:58 PM CST
Fingers crossed for you and your efforts LariAnn!
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jul 8, 2012 12:47 PM CST

Moderator

Evan,

Well, the Sauromatum you sent me has thrown up two leaves but no bloom. However, the two S. giganteum I got from Plant Delights both bloomed, one after the other, and I did four crosses using my Typhonium hybrids. In about a week, I'll know if it worked. Until then, may the Goddess of Blessed Pollination look favorably upon my efforts!

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
[Last edited by LariAnn - Jul 8, 2012 4:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jul 8, 2012 3:42 PM CST

Plants Admin

Fingers crossed and will invoke the GOBP nightly! Green Grin!
Evan
Name: LariAnn Garner
south Florida, USA
When in doubt, do the cross!
Forum moderator Pollen collector Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Aroids Seed Starter
Foliage Fan Region: Florida Tropicals Container Gardener
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LariAnn
Jul 17, 2012 10:54 AM CST

Moderator

Update on the Sauromatum x Typhonium cross - unfortunately the developing berry head is now showing signs of aborting after having lasted much longer than the ones which failed within a week. I had such hope for this cross, but will now have to wait until next year to attempt it again. The cross may yet work next year, as I've had other crosses that didn't work at first end up yielding viable seed after the 4th or subsequent attempt.

LariAnn
Be the Captain of What's Gonna Happen!
[Last edited by LariAnn - Jul 17, 2012 10:56 AM (+)]
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