Roses forum: Rose ID

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Name: Kassia
Framingham, MA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Roses Composter
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kassiap
Jun 4, 2012 11:10 PM CST
I have lost the tag for this rose...
This year the canes are really long, more than 6 feet tall, the leaves are huge, the blooms are some sort of pink blend. Slight fragrance.
Thumb of 2012-06-05/kassiap/95c6d6
Thumb of 2012-06-05/kassiap/8d80d2 Thumb of 2012-06-05/kassiap/d07ec5
Thumb of 2012-06-05/kassiap/1664c6 Thumb of 2012-06-05/kassiap/94db3a

Thanks

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Jun 5, 2012 8:00 AM CST
Oooooh! i don't know but I think i want one.
Porkpal
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Jun 5, 2012 9:11 AM CST
I also have no clue, but damn, those leaves are GORGEOUS! That's enough for me to want one, too!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Jun 6, 2012 12:18 PM CST
Those are large leaves for a rose. An unusually bright shade of green, too. The flower coloration reminds me of the hybrid musk Felicia, but the foliage seems unlike most rose foliage I've seen. The coloration and the roundness of the leaves is suggestive of rugosa lineage. The distinctive smoothness and subtle wrinkling I've seen on Mountbatten, if I remember correctly. If I had to hazard a guess I might say "Morgengruss." But I'm mostly clueless, too.
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Colorado Ponds Roses Sempervivums
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tabby
Jun 6, 2012 12:39 PM CST
Nope, not Morgenruss - the sepals are way too long and the leaf shape doesn't match.

Does it repeat bloom?
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Jun 6, 2012 1:03 PM CST
Precisely how long are the sepals on Morgengruss?
Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Colorado Ponds Roses Sempervivums
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tabby
Jun 6, 2012 1:15 PM CST
Precisely? Haven't precisely measured them. Smiling
But the sepals on Morgenruss are more like those of the typical hybrid tea.
The sepals on this unknown rose are long and feathered in a way the kinda reminds me of damasks.

That foliage is kinda rugosa like.
[Last edited by tabby - Jun 6, 2012 1:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Jun 6, 2012 3:37 PM CST
I agree that there are hints of damask or rugosa heritage.

Is it fragrant? Does it repeat? Does it bear hips?

A vast majority of modern roses have leaves with smooth surfaces. It was the fine wrinkles that seemed distinctive to me, and the rounded form. Some of the old garden roses have leaves that possess texture and form similar to the ones above. I stumbled onto the centifolia Ispahan at HMF that does, for example. Autumn Damask has more texture. The roughness on rugosas is a lot rougher still. R. rugosa might convey subtle wrinkling to distant descendants. The hint of yellow in the flower suggests that the rose above must be from some time after the first decade of the twentieth century. The rose in question is shrubby and has foliage resembling an old rose, but it must be a modern one.

It seems to me I have seen a rose or two with distinctive sepals, but except for moss roses I cannot recall which one(s). I don't grow enough damasks to recognize long sepals as one of their distinctive characteristics: never noticed that feature on either Ispahan or La Ville Bruxelles. I now see that Autumn Damask appears to have long sepals. Except for moss roses, though, I generally don't think of sepals as being terribly helpful in rose ID. In Modern Roses 12, for example, I see sepals listed as being conspicuous for Crested Moss, but otherwise they seem generally not to be mentioned (even for Crested Sweetheart where they are also conspicuous.)

Morgengruss is characterized as a Kordesii shrub, so it has some rugosa lineage. I compared the leaves above to a number of shots of Morgengruss at HMF that showed leaves, and except for the bright green of new growth (above), I am hard pressed to find categorical differences. It's not that I'm sure that it actually is Morgengruss. I'm not. Morgengruss tends to display a flower more stiffly formal in form throughout its development. Still, I thought it was a pretty reasonable and defensible starting guess - at least in the absence of something better.

Another guess - a rose in this color and size range with big leaves - is Leander. But the form of Leander's blossom seems even further afield.

The thing is, there aren't a whole lot of shrub roses in this color range, are there?




Name: tabby
denver, colorado zone 5
Charter ATP Member Clematis I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: Colorado Ponds Roses Sempervivums
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tabby
Jun 6, 2012 4:30 PM CST
It's a very good guess. I can't even make a guess.

I'd have to look outside, but I think I have a few with that light warmish pink. Maybe. It's usually always hard to make an identification from photos since we can't be sure how our computer screens are representing the colors. To me, the sepals and the foliage are going to be the thing that separates this unknown rose from others with similar blooms since they seem more distinctive to me than the bloom itself. Maybe it's because I hung around with other OGR nuts, but I was taught to look very much at sepals and leaves. And thorns, peduncles and stuff other than the bloom. There was a lovely long online discussion about the real Banshee, way back in the day, that was primarily focused on the sepals and leaves. Lot's of swapping of photographs. It was fun!

I've got Leander, and agree that it really isn't a candidate based on the flower form. I have multiple warmish pink English roses, but all have blooms that are too full.

Note to self - take more photos of buds showing sepals. And thorns. Thorns can be a good part of IDing some roses, especially OGRs.


Name: Kassia
Framingham, MA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Roses Composter
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kassiap
Jun 6, 2012 4:39 PM CST
I have been looking at my rose lists and none of those names are in my list... so frustrating...

To answer some of the questions:
Yes, it has a very pleasant fragrance - but does not remind me of Rugosas


Here are some more pictures -
Took those pics this morning before the rain today
Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/b377b9
Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/809f23 Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/434ca1

Just took those a few minutes ago! went outside to smell the roses! after the rain!!!!

Leaves - Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/bf5379 Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/267ec4
Back of the plant - very long canes -

Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/2ff835 Thumb of 2012-06-06/kassiap/ff63ac

You can see some of the damage from some bugs! No black spots, no mildew....
I don't have any Gallicas... plenty of Rugosas...

My roses are really pretty this year... I have submitted several pics to the plant database... oh well, wish I could add this one...

Thank you guys for trying...
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Jun 6, 2012 9:52 PM CST
I agree that the sepals are quite distinctive as are the leaves. Does the last picture show some striping?
Porkpal
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
Cottage Gardener Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Birds
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Calif_Sue
Jun 7, 2012 4:49 PM CST

Moderator

Wish I had a clue, I don't think I have photographed anything even remotely like that! It's a beauty. Thumbs up
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Name: Kassia
Framingham, MA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Roses Composter
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kassiap
Jun 8, 2012 5:11 PM CST
Porkpal, no stripping...

Its really a beautiful plant all around!!!! Smells great too... I will continue to look at my old lists and continue to check...

Thanks Sue and Porkpal!!!! I have updated my blog... my roses are really nice this year!!!!


http://ninoandlilly2.blogspot.com/2012/06/kosmos-fairy-tale....

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