Plant Database forum: Confusion around the genus Medicago..

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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Jun 12, 2012 6:55 AM CST
Today I photographed a plant on a waste field and found a perfect match with the pictures on this French site:
It says: Medicago sativa subsp. media
and when looking at the long list synonyms they give; I see quite a few which are entered in our database..
Now, I am not entirely sure if I can take this serious looking site as an authority or not..

http://www.florealpes.com/fiche_medicagovaria.php?photonum=3...
http://www.florealpes.com/seletaxrefzoom.php?cherchezoom=137...

http://garden.org/plants/search/text.php?q=medicago&submit=S...


Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Jun 12, 2012 7:50 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

There are lots and lots of synonyms in Medicago.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Medicago

Do we need them all listed in our database? It would be good to have them but I don't think it's a problem if we don't. Many of those synonyms are unresolved with low confidence.
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Jun 12, 2012 8:07 AM CST
I personally don't think it is necessary to have that huge list of synonyms in our database, but I still don't know if I can add Medicago sativa subs.media like it is named on the French botanical site..as that name is not in the database yet? I seems to be a natural hybrid between Medicago falcata and Medicago sativa. My botanical book (which is quite old dating from around 1950) says: Medicago falcata x sativa..
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 12, 2012 8:11 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

The only online reference I can find to Medicago sativa subsp. media is that french site your referenced, along with a few other french sites.

I would probably say listing the species as "falcata x sativa" would be safer.
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Jun 12, 2012 8:38 AM CST
OK got it Dave! Smiling
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Jun 12, 2012 10:28 AM CST
Dave when I typed in : Medicago falcata x sativa in the search box:
it gives me this:Medicago sativa subsp. falcata.:
http://garden.org/plants/search/text.php?q=Medicago+falcata+... Confused
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Jun 12, 2012 11:40 AM CST
I found out when I entered it under Medicago falcata x sativa it got accepted! Smiling
Name: Monica
Texas Gulf Coast (Zone 9b)
Sweat Weather, Not Sweater Weather
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Gulf Coast Multi-Region Gardener Seed Starter
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krancmm
Jun 13, 2012 6:59 AM CST
Actually, it appears that your plant is Medicago sativa subsp. varia http://www.ildis.org/cgi-bin/Araneus.pl#17

Under that citation is the common name in French of Luzerne Bigarree which is the same as that listed in the original post http://www.florealpes.com/fiche_medicagovaria.php?photonum=3...

Interesting in that it's a hybrid but considered a sub-species because it appears independently in many geographic regions.
Monica
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 13, 2012 7:09 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Thanks for that, Monica. I edited the plant.

Medicago sativa subsp. varia
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Jun 13, 2012 7:53 AM CST
Thank you Monica! Nice to know too that that French site seems to be reliable! Smiling

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