What Dutch Sources are you meaning Polly? Are you meaning buying directly from Holland?

Places like the Lily Garden grow, from what I understand, much of what she sells and of course hybridizes. Faraway Flowers (for example) as the name suggests, she brings them in from the outside and is quite up front about that (even her business name tells you this). Most of the lilies she sells are not grown in her garden, though Ramona grows many, many lilies herself. It is her love of lilies that brought about her business and to share her connections with lilies to us here in the USA.

I do think places like Faraway and B&D Lilies, you have a much better chance at getting what you are buying than say, Brecks or some place like that. They also back their lilies up to if you are sent the wrong one they will get you the right one or credit you. I will also add that most of what seems to be coming out of Holland of recent has not impressed me in the garden. Ots that don't withstand heat and succumb to virus more easily or just plain don't perform at all. These are lilies that pretty much have little resemblance to their greenhouse photos. As a person with passion the lilium, it is frustrating to see this.

So I go back to Judith at the Lily Garden and the small growers that create garden lilies and test them for years before releasing them. And hybridizing myself and trading seeds with you all

If I understand correctly, Polly, a rewording of your question could go something like this: With the likely error rate of mislabeling being equal between Dutch imports sold by US growers and the Dutch companies themselves why not just buy from the less expensive Dutch companies?

Obviously if you are a business person (nursery) buying for resale you don't have much choice if you are going to be competitive. I order but a few bulbs at a time, almost always fewer than 10 and if I want some Dutch types I can add a few of those and pay that premium. Sometimes our local growers don't have what I'm looking for and I have to go the Dutch way, and that is the case this fall with tulips I want.

When I look at our US lily grower catalogs, if I see a stock photo or what may be a greenhouse photo I am suspect of this company actually growing those bulbs then selling them. I they are growing them they should be taking their own photos.

Tracey is spot on in her assessment of the quality of some Dutch cultivars being sold by US growers. We have both been stung this year. I think there is a big problem with lilies developed for the cut flower industry being sold by some companies as garden worthy plants. Being pampered in a greenhouse for one season then discarding the bulb is not the same as growing out in the rain, sun and wind and then growing the bulb on year after year as a garden perennial.

Example from Mak-Leek business: After just one season of bloom lilies first selected for potential cut flower use are next grown in the greenhouse. So no further field test for those (and no need to live a long life either). Lilies selected for garden use are grown on for three years for further evaluation.

As long as we're laying it all out on the table, I am of the same philosophy as Tracey--and Connie! Period! The Lily Garden and B&D and the Lily Nook are my main commercial sources. And I rely heavily on Fall ordering because I get freshly dug field grown bulbs from these people. Spring bulbs usually are too, and if they aren't they'll tell you so. I never had a problem I couldn't live with. Faraway is in my near future here.

I'll put another feather in Judith Freemans' hat right now be saying this past Spring and Summer has been tortuous to lilies--survival of the fittest is very fitting--yet two of the four I list in my 2012 summer durability are hers and I could have listed two more as a follow up. To me thats notable and proof of excellant field performance testing on her behalf.

I am comfortable with the thought that these people are as close to lilies as I and care about lilies as much or more than I do!.

I'll try to explain it a little better. Are the lilies that the growers we love are selling (let's not put Faraway in here, as I know she imports from faraway, LOL), but say, The Lily Garden all directly grown at The lily Garden? . The Lily Garden sells Casablanca, and Stargazer and Tiger Woods for example. Are these lilies all grown at The Lily Garden, or are they purchased from one of the importers, such as Ednie, or Mak?

And if all the Stargazers are not grown at The Lily Garden, how would we expect to have any better luck with The Lily Garden Stargazer than the ones from Brecks?

Lorn, please don't think I'm saying anything bad at all about TLG, or B and D or The Lily Nook. I absolutely love all these companies.

Sure, Polly--I'd be glad to speak to that 'as I understand it'. It would be better if those I mention would respond directly to you (which they would do if you ask them). And, I'm asking Connie to fill in between the lines the things I miss and to make corrections on things where I'm not quite right.

First, 'it is my understanding' that every bulb shipped in the Fall by these three is grown either by them or a 'close-in' associate grower by agreement which they have complete oversight. One exception is that B&D routinely offers some 'New Introductions or Unique' lilies in the fall that are grown at the breeder, then routed thru B&D for sale. The new introduction bulbs that don't sell out are scaled for propagation at B&D.

Second, 'it is my understanding' that all bulbs shipped in the Spring by these sources are also grown, dug and condition chilled be them. If, in rare exception, a preconditioned import bulb is listed, the word (Imported) is usually stated as the first word in cultivar description. You won't see it very much, if ever, with these sources and if ever in doubt email/ask--you'll get an answer pretty darn quick from these people.

Third, It is common practice of these sources to obtain and sell many popular or potentially popular cultivars from many different 'trade sources', both locally and globally. But ,'it is my understanding' that they are not resold directly, but rather they are grown/propagated until field grow counts are 'up to volume' for market. They are, therefore, field tested by default for 'true to cultivar' characturistics. And as true Plantsmen or Plantswoman, they; just like us, seek out only the truest, best performing cultivars to grow and sell.

Fourth, I believe the shorter the daisy chain is from grower to me, the gardener, the less opportunity there is for a bulb control mistake (wrong bulb); and a whole lot less encouraging for Greed and Monetary influences to be a factor. Let's face it. I believe there is such a thing as 'forced marketing'--research and development costs money, so does mass propagation. And if something doesn't turn out quite right with millions of bulbs--well, then what? Scrap or pedal? Stargazers--my goodness, there's at least two dozen varients.

Buy a Stargazer from anyone of the three I mention and you'll get a Stargazer as close to the original as possible!

Edit Added: There are three other grower/seller/sources I didn't mention in my other post that are as well, excellant, based on many others credible experiences. Those would be Hallson, Faraway, Valley K Ranch Lilies (plantlilies.com)

Thank you Lorn! You explained it very well. Much appreciated.

Polly--and lets remind ourselves that Faraway is not always that far away-- with connections and direct listings of Hartle-Gilman, a breeder/grower in southeastern Minnesota, where Dr. Robert Gilman (first got into lilies by cross breeding relatives and neighbors lilies) has many cultivars to his credit. As far as I know, Faraway is the sole public- marketing outlet for Hartle-Gilman (outside of a few local nurseries in Mn), and any bulbs ordered from Faraway that are grown by Hartle-Gilman are fresh dug and shipped from there direct to the gardener. We, as lily gardeners, are very, very fortunate to have that connection thru Faraway. Plus, I think Romona at Faraway has many, many other long established connections, knows all the 'ins and outs, whats running good and whats not, from every angle in this business to take all the guesswork and worry out of ordering for most of us. A real nice setup for all of us to enjoy!