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Jan 9, 2013 11:05 AM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Acid soil is especially beneficial for winter survival of oriental lilies in cold climates. Along with nutrient uptake, I suspect that a major benefit would be the enhancement/deterrent of beneficial/harmful fungi/pathogens. I would definitely use aluminum sulfate for blue hydrangeas (a specific case), but aluminum can build up in the soil and become toxic for certain plants. I have no idea if lilies (or anything in the Liliaceae family) is in this group of susceptible species, perhaps Lorn knows. So, unless I know for sure, I shy away from aluminum sulphate. I usually choose ground sulfur or ammonium sulphate.

(Lorn, I remember when I was researching about waterbabies, that aluminum ions played a role somehow in the chemical reaction(s) that attracted water in the cell cytoplasm. (Or something like that.) At any rate, and although nothing was even insinuated that this could be affected by greater availability of aluminum, I definitely recall linking the possibility in my mind.)
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jan 9, 2013 1:26 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Excess aluminum (ionic) will act as a nutrient (uptake) blocker. The question is: at what point would it be excessive? I've been told it affects all bulbs, tubers and underground vegitables like carrots and potatoes the same way. The real problem is that aluminum ions, like sodium ions (salt, road salt) are not very mobile and are not leached away from the soil readily. Consequently, the build up over time can defeat its intended purpose; your pH values may be the desired correctness, but a continued downward spiral of stunted growth and vigor in succeeding years would be evident. Yet, packaged aluminum sulfate is widely available and info on the packaging in bold type says: For Use With All Acid Loving Plants, it should be used with caution while keeping the undesirable aspects in mind. So, of the four sulfur products we've mentioned, aluminum suphate is probably the least desirable in the long run. As Rick says--probably best to stay away from it, if another is available.

I think it's accurate to say that ALL LILIES, as with most plants, benefit from a slightly acid soil, i.e. pH 6.5. for maximun nutrient uptake. I think we can also say that Orientals or anything with Oriental in it seems to require the lower pH values for maximun uptake. At the other extreme, I think we can say that Trumpets or anything with Trumpet in it will thrive at the highest pH levels of all, perhaps as high as 7.3. But they, too, also benefit from a lower pH and more or less, are just tolerant of higher pH, certainly not because they love it.

Don't expect to see immediate results from a lower pH this year. So much of this is tied into bulb building in the current year for next years performance. Like Rick says a nice healthy bulb that's had good uptake will winter over in tip top shape and have a vigorous start the following year--that's when you'll see the real results of lowering your pH.

Rick, you just reminded me. I need to check on something!
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Jan 10, 2013 12:37 AM CST
Name: Calin
Weston-super-mare UK (Zone 7b)
Bulbs Lilies Plant and/or Seed Trader
Geez, so much info.

Well, I started last year with coffee grounds...I drink coffee, mom&dad drink coffee!
I usually just spread the grounds on top of soil around plants I know love it.

But right now, I'm thinking whether I got ANY orientals left in my garden...
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Jan 10, 2013 3:12 AM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Don't give up! Maybe just start with some of the orienpets out there now that look virtually like orientals, in flower at least.
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Jan 10, 2013 7:23 AM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Yes, but they too, benefit from a lower pH and good soil culture. Orientals as a division by themselves can be a little more fussy than Orienpets. Still, I think if you just lower your pH a little each year for the next two, three years, you'll see whatever Orientals you do have left will spruce back up and become progressively more vigorous.

I, myself, prefer Orienpets because there are so many cultivar choices commercially available out there with such a wide variety of lovable colors and fragrances--and for the most part, pretty hardy.
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Jan 10, 2013 8:38 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Tracey
Midwest (Zone 5a)
Garden Photography Tomato Heads Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Pollen collector Forum moderator Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator Cat Lover I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Seed Starter
I would add, from a huge oriental lover here, that some orientals seem to tolerate alkaline soils better than others. Sumatra and Rosario are two that come to mind right away that I have had for 5 years or more that still remain blooming well. My soil is at least a 7 and in some areas over that by a bit, having had different areas in my yard tested by the state agriculture lab.

One way, in addition to compost, that I have used to decrease the soil pH is using soil sulfur. It is less toxic to the soil, but is also much more gradual. It can transition in 2-3 years time. Used it with great success for blueberries here.
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Jan 21, 2013 4:37 AM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Seed purchased from Ray Mc namara 2008..'[Good White x Medusa]X TerenifeThumb of 2013-01-21/gwhizz/85200a
lily freaks are not geeks!
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Jan 21, 2013 11:34 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Tracey
Midwest (Zone 5a)
Garden Photography Tomato Heads Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Pollen collector Forum moderator Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator Cat Lover I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Seed Starter
Nice Smiling
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Jan 21, 2013 6:45 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
A nice reward! I see you've got plans for this one, too.
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Jan 25, 2013 3:41 AM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Another from the same cross-very 'heat stressed'.. not as good...,.,.Have to plan ahead ,Lorn Blinking Thumb of 2013-01-25/gwhizz/5ebf78
lily freaks are not geeks!

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