Natalie, you will come out much cheaper to buy some additional fans of Wild Horses instead of buying BAP. I bought 4 50 lb. bags of alfalfa pellets today from Tractor Supply.

Michele, I should have some happy worms here after what I did today. I planted 20 dips in a new area. I dug out large holes and filled each with half a bag of Lowe's top soil which is fine fine bark, sand, and fly ash and a gallon pot of sand that had been dregged out of a nearby lake. To each hole I also added a gallon pot or two of composted horse manure with shavings, TWO cups of alfalfa pellets, one cup of milorganite, and about a 1/4-1/3 cup slow release fertilizer. Using a shovel I mixed all of these ingredients well before planting each daylily. After I finished all the planting, I added ANOTHER cup of alfalfa pellets on top of the ground out around each daylily. Then I watered the bed well with a water hose and nozzle. I will water every couple of days for a couple of weeks. I am out of epsom salt. I will add epsom salt and pelletized lime. Happy worms, happy plants!

Doris

OH YEA Doris, those worms will be HAPPY

For those in the colder zones you may not want to add alfalfa or whatever until spring since you may not want your daylilies trying to grow when they may be wanting to get ready for winter. I have heard that most people in the colder zones do all their fertilizing and what have you in the spring because of this.

I was digging daylilies today to divide and my friend Kim said look there's a baby snake so I looked. Guess what, it was a big, fat worm I had to laugh at her. My worms are very happy.



Ann, yes the ground alfalfa has the same effect, maybe even faster since the worms can eat it better since it's ground up for them

Good idea, Michele, about waiting until Spring to start this. We do have really cold winters, and I don't want them trying to grow! Too funny about the snake sized worm!

Doris, You are right about buying additional fans if Bap is expensive. I'm going to try the alfalfa pellets first, and if that doesn't work, I'll look for more fans. I've been so disappointed with lack of increase on it, but I'm not willing to get rid of it because of that!

My worms could probably use a snack. My flower beds are full of them, which is always a surprise, since I think my dirt is bad. It sure isn't bad if it's full of worms!

Natalie I also live in a comparatively cold zone and I am still fertilizing. My plants seem to be coming out of a period of no growth during the height of summer so I want to feed them to get them as healthy as possible going into winter.

Depending on how comfortable you are with chemicals and solvents and the like, BAP can be relatively reasonable. You can buy it in powder form for $1-5 per gram (depending on how much you buy). The real problem is that it isn't terribly soluble in water to start with so you would need to dissolve it in a pretty basic solution prior to adding water and a solvent like DMSO (which you can also buy reasonably). The working solution of BAP is 1:28 dilution of BAP-10 (which is a 10% solution) or roughly 3.45 grams/liter. Just some food for thought.

Natalie, the BAP-10 (liquid) that we last bought probably three years ago was $160 for a liter. Smaller quantities can be found for lesser amounts. If your flower beds have worms, then your dirt's not bad. They will like a snack in the spring!

Also, I just read a post on Facebook that John Peat made about BAP-10 (liquid). He said the best time to spray it is the spring before the daylily starts to scape which is the opposite that we were told. Could it be that as more people are now using BAP, different people are trying it at different times and in different ways? He also said this about BAP Paste: "BAP Paste can be applied to the crown where you have damaged it during digging and dividing. The paste will help to protect the wound from pathogens and at the same time help with increase."

Doris I have heard that as well about putting the paste on the crown helping protect it. There was someone else that does that besides Peat, but I can remember who it was.
I've thought about doing that, but I would need to mix up my own batch and I really have no clue as to how much lanolin/BAP ratio to mix together. I've never seen a large quantity for sell, just the small one that Cary sells.

In spring you can cut the crowns in half. Really! and in half again!

I've done it. Years ago and they lived. Didn't bloom of course but I got 4 out of one.

It was a test done while another daylily lady (from PEI) was here.

And on an inexpensive daylily.

The following year I did it with an intro. Kinda scary doing it to a $100 daylily, but it too worked.

Haven't done it since though. Just watered daylily to help increase. When I had some summer dormancy back in May, I used Neptunes (actually made in town!!!) and water. I have increase. Not large fans but increase like I would not normally get. Not sure what is responsible. Just passing on the observation.

With all this information, I'm gonna have to go shopping.

Hi, everyone,

From elsewhere (on an FB forum, posted in the last 24 hours):

"Daylily varieties respond differently to BAP. Some respond, some don't. We don't use BAP ourselves but I've seen the results of other hybridizers who use BAP. The reason persons use BAP, is for rapid increase. Many freshly Bapped daylilies take 2 years to grow out. You may even see it break up into multiple minifans if you buy a bapped daylily. I suspect buying an unbapped daylily will increase faster for a person if the buyer wants to Bap or heavily fertilize as the growth nodes have yet to be pushed."

A response on FB to the above post:

"/a/re you referring to BAP 10 (Liquid) or BAP Paste, my experience with BAP Paste is some take to it, most don't but there is no "growing out of it" so to speak. With the BAP 10 all of what you say is correct. I did however find more plants reacted to the spray than the paste.

Further if using the spray, it best to do it on a cool evening after the sun is no longer shining on the plant and DO NOT dip them, if you dip them your plant will die - the roots should not have BAP 10 (liquid) applied.

For those unfamiliar with BAP Paste it is applied to the crown where you have damaged it during digging and dividing. The paste will help to protect the wound from pathogens and at the same time help with increase.

BAP 10 is a FOLIAR spray that can be sprayed on a Daylily while it is growing in the ground. Best time is in the spring before scapes have emerged while the plant is at peak growing phase."

* * * *

I'm honestly not trying to confuse the issue. However, I agree with those who've mentioned in the past (privately to me) that there are simply too many daylily forums. (For the life of me, I don't understand why FB quite recently has spawned two, separate forums.) It seems to me that information is not being shared, but rather incomplete experiences are being diffused over multiple forums. A 'little bit of this' & a 'little bit of that' gets divided by the *same* participants on different forums. Who benefits from this? To me it seems that it benefits the commercial interests of individual hybridizers.

As I've mentioned, my only personal concern is having daylilies that are cold morning openers, which are resistant (how-so-ever-this-is-defined) to the scourge of strains of daylily rust in a garden that never gets a rust-killing freeze. For me, other concerns are only of interest to a commercial hybridizer who is seeking a larger market.

Happy gardening, everyone!

E.

We split some of this in our daylily club a few years ago. My daughter sprayed it on some plants and it did work. It eats thru anything it sits on tho and that was just much of a 'chemical' for me. I threw it out. Im like Doris, buy another fan. Also, if a plant is so slow to increase that you have to spray BAP on it, then its still going to be a plant thats slow to increase...so whats the point. OK...so I know the point, but not just a backyard daylily grower. I hadnt heard of the paste, but dont intend on spliting any crowns anyway. Glad to know of it tho.

I just wanted to say 'hi' to Doris and Pam! It's nice to 'see' you on ATP. It's been a few years since the 'old days' on DG, when your help to me as a newbie was very much appreciated. : ) Great to hear your voices again on this venue! : )

All the best - Elizabete

mistyfog said:With all this information, I'm gonna have to go shopping.

With all this information, I need a nap! So much great information too! I've decided to give a few of the fans a light fertilizer for now, and I'll wait until Spring to do more. Maybe by then it will have cooled off enough to spend more than 15 minutes outside. I can't get myself interested in digging alfalfa pellets in around the plants, though I do plan on doing that!

As for cutting a scape in half, I would be horrified to even try that one! I'm sure it's fine, but I get nervous just dividing them! Glad to know that it worked, just in case!

Thanks to each of your for your wonderful suggestions. Thanks also, JWWC, for the info on diluting Bap. That will be really handy if I end up using it.

Good Morning, Elizabete! Good to "see" you, too. I hope your daylilies have given you some very pretty blooms this summer. We have had some challenges but also some very nice blooms and are now enjoying rebloom and a few that did not bloom when they should have. We are anticipating more fall arrivals next week now and have the new bed ready for planting. We are already dreaming of NEXT bloom season!

Doris

Quick question about using alfalfa pellets. I'm finally planting my seedlings in their flower bed, and I'm putting some alfalfa pellets in the bottom of the hole. Do I need to worry about putting too much in there? I've been putting "some", but nothing like a cup full. I'm just grabbing some and dropping it in. I've covered it with a little bit of soil when I remember, but haven't done that for each one. I then plant on sprinkling some on top when I'm done, then I'll add a layer of mulch.

Am I doing this wrong? I'm worried about them getting too much fertilizer. Thanks for any information!

I don't know about seedlings from personal experience but on his cubit, Lyle has a pictorial and he puts what looks like 2-3 tablespoons of alfalfa powder in with his seedlings.

Thanks JWWC. I bought pellets, and I'm in no mood to grind them into powder. Hopefully what I'm doing won't kill them! I think if they were ground up, they'd be a bit more than 3 tablespoons, but that's just a guess.

Natalie, the amount you are using should be fine. Using alfalfa pellets isn't like using regular fertilzer so you shouldn't have to worry about them getting to much fertilzer.

I've never heard anyone say that too much alfalfa killed their daylilies so you shouldn't worry about that. I have never had any damage from the alfalfa and like I said I use A LOT. I grab a huge handful and throw in and mix around then backfil halfway and add more then I will go back and top dress when I get all of them planted. There was someone who used to (or still does) make the mound in the hole with a pile of alfalfa pellets and sit the daylily on top of the pile.
Even though it goes hand in hand, I don't use alfalfa just for the plants. I really like seeing those huge, fat earthworms in my beds when I dig something up. It tells me that my soil is healthy and there is plenty of microbial activity going on and I have plenty of earthworm castings to help the daylilies grow as well.

The only thing that I have found that I have used that has burned/hurt the daylilies was adding milorganite to the ones I potted in the black nurserey pots just recently.I should have known better:whistling: , but I didn't realize it was going to get as hot as it did. Last year I only added a smidgeon and it was fine, but this year I added like a cup full and I should have waited until November and just top dressed the pots. The ones in the ground were fine, it's just that the pots already get really hot in the sun anyway. They are bouncing back fine, but they look so pitiful. The ones I divided and potted 2 weeks after those look really good and I didn't add the milorganite to them

I've been putting a good handful of pellets in the bottom of holes this season and have seen no ill effects. I switched my planting method this year to dig a hole mix a little compost and alfalfa pellets and osmocote if I have it in the bottom, fill the hole with water, plop in the plant then backfill with soil. Plants definitely seem to recover much faster this way.

Has anyone tried willow-water - I'd love to hear it it worked, fizzled, or backfired on daylilies. Willow stems (the part that hangs down at the end of the branches) have strong growth hormones in them and have been used as a natural, free and easy way to encourage growth in other plants, cuttings, and divisions. You just cut some stems (we have lots of willows around our area, but the stems can also be purchased online), soak them to leach out the growth hormones, and use the water on other plants. One google source that popped up is: deepgreenpermaculture.com/diy-instructions/home-made-plant-rooting-hormone-willow-water/

Michele, thanks so much for the information! Looks like I've done no harm, according to your info. My main reason was earthworm feeding, and if it helped the seedlings, that would be a bonus. My new seedling bed was created from killing part of the lawn, and when I was digging, I found almost no worms. My flower beds are full of them, and I'm going to top dress all of the plants in the beds, mostly to feed the worms!

Now if my other seedlings would grow just a bit more, I'd feel better about putting them in the garden. They are still pretty small, and I'm not sure how big they should be before I transplant them. And me being the idiot that I am, I forgot that I still had seeds germinating in the fridge! Looks like those are going to have to spend the winter in the greenhouse, and I'll just hope for the best! I'm thinking I better plant them in one gallon pots instead of the smaller pots.

Tina, I've heard that willow-water is good, but I have never used it.