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Apr 17, 2013 12:59 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
And it sounds like something that might be relatively easy for Dave to implement (I could be wrong about that! Hilarious! )
But I still like Jonna's idea about limiting the number of "seedpackets" any member could request. And it seems like seedpackets could be tracked the same as acorns.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Apr 17, 2013 1:09 PM CST
So Cal (Zone 10b)
Cat Lover Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
I agree with a limit. Unfortunately, there always seems to be that one or two people who try to take advantage.

Could there be a way to increase that limit, though, for people in need due to exceptional circumstances? I am thinking along the lines of a severe flood or hurricane/tornado or fire that causes catastrophic damage and the gardener is starting over, again. I know that I found a lot of solace in my garden after the Northridge earthquake but I was very fortunate in that, while my home suffered major damage, the yard still looked good (what can I say? I always try to see the bright side - even in the worst of situations). Or should something like that be handled separately (outside of seedpacks - like a site-wide call for donations but then, I guess, that is a completely different topic -lol ).

Anyway, I vote for the limit, also Smiling
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln
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Apr 17, 2013 1:31 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jonna
Belgium, Europe (Zone 6a)
Winter Sowing Sedums Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Belgium Region: Europe
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Salvias Herbs Cut Flowers
OldGardener,

I'm fully into helping people who lost their garden due to any catastrophe, but I think that must be handled separately, because some people will take advantage of that. Only the members living in the same region can say if their request is okay. If someone in Europe has a request, I can handle that, but not if someone in the USA or other parts of the world request for seeds because of a catastrophe.
It may seem I'm very leery, but I have quite a lot of experience with greedy people. I love to share my seeds, do send my seeds to charitable institutions (after checking them), often don't need equal trades, but as soon as greedy people come in, I have a problem with that.
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Apr 17, 2013 2:02 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
And, if the "seedpackets" were handled like acorns, members could give "seedpackets" to another member, just like we can give acorns to someone.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Apr 17, 2013 3:50 PM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Let me be the devil's advocate for just a minute. nodding

The above suggestions sounds good in theory. But I can also see a lot of headaches for Dave or whoever administers the system. ("I paid a seed packet for woofie's seeds and she never sent them...")

Why not allow any member (not just new members) to trade seeds for regular old acorns? Members could still negotiate privately through tree mail as we do now. Suppose woofie and I arrange a trade- she is sending me 5 rare seeds. In return, I agree to pay her 2 acorns. Or whatever I have to offer, either seeds of my own, a division of a plant... That way no administrator has to play Mom.

All members have the ability to earn acorns, and the ability to trade for seeds provides extra motivation to contribute to the site to earn acorns.

Just a thought.

Karen
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Apr 17, 2013 4:04 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
Well, technically, we could do that right now. And it's a good idea! Never thought of offering to trade acorns for seeds. Ha! Should have been obvious!

The original idea, though, as I understood it, was to provide some sort of mechanism for offering free seeds to new members. And that would be nice. Of course, not everyone who joins wants or needs free seeds. Hence, thoughts for some sort of "voucher" system.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Apr 17, 2013 5:28 PM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Well, you can do that now too. Just post on the trade forum "free seeds for new members". To minimize abuse, just offer a limited number of packs.

Karen
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Apr 17, 2013 5:44 PM CST
So Cal (Zone 10b)
Cat Lover Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
kqcrna said:... But I can also see a lot of headaches for Dave or whoever administers the system. ("I paid a seed packet for woofie's seeds and she never sent them...")


This would be a problem but if there are multiple complaints from or about someone then at least it would be easier to see that there is a problem. I apologize beforehand for my ignorance as I have never been involved in a formal exchange, but how is this issue (not receiving seeds but the sender says they sent them) normally handled in exchanges? It seems to me that the same thing can happen whether it's for [seedpackets], a "seeds for acorns", or just a normal trade.

Trading for acorns is a good idea but, right now as far as I know, there really isn't any system set up to locate who is willing to do so other than randomly going through lists and contacting a member to see if they would be willing - or am I missing something (I still am learning to navigate this wonderful site)??
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln
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Apr 17, 2013 5:46 PM CST
So Cal (Zone 10b)
Cat Lover Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
I think there was some concern in some previous posts about a person requesting seeds from a lot of different people (the greed factor). I believe that is where the idea of limiting it to 10 packets (or 30 packets) came from.
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln
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Apr 18, 2013 6:49 AM CST
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b, and F (Zone 9b)
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
kqcrna said:Let me be the devil's advocate for just a minute. nodding



Karen




Me, too.

It's a great idea to share what seeds we can with those that need them. There are some good ideas here, but, does it really need to be organized at all? If I notice that someone has an interest in something I have, I offer them seeds (or plants) in a Tree-Mail. If they have a trade then, that's fine, if not, no biggy. Somewhere down the line they'll likely have something to trade with someone, so it's all good.

The activity level of a member's site participation factors into the decision of how much I give for no (immediate) return, but then again, that's up to the individual doing the sharing. Share on the basis of what you have to give, and when you have time to actually send it.

If someone sends acorns because they want to...cool! If not, that's okay, too. They'll likely want to add to their ATP experience anyway by enjoying these plants in their gardens and by sharing the joys (and sometimes sorrows, too) of their results here, which adds to our over-all combined ATP experience. If the plants do well for them, they may even save their own seeds to share with others, thereby continuing the fun and rewarding activity of seed sharing.
Cottage Gardening

Newest Interest: Rock Gardens


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Apr 18, 2013 7:02 AM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
My point exactly, Chelle.

I do think bestowing acorns could fit in there somewhere, sometime. I have at time sent acorns to a new member for no reason. And I've given away a lot of seeds with no trade involved many times too.

If I give someone a bunch of seeds and Chelle gives them to the same person, it's no business of mine. Chelle's gift is between her and that member.

I just don't think there's a need for a big seed bank and administrator and lots of bureaucratic rules. We have enough of that in our lives already. I'd rather just post that I have seeds to give away or respond to individual requests for seeds. Keep it between friends.

Dave and Trish are noticeably absent on this thread Whistling

Karen
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Apr 18, 2013 8:07 AM CST
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Shine Your Light!
Heirlooms Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Hummingbirder Bee Lover Herbs
Butterflies Dragonflies Birds Cat Lover Dog Lover Garden Photography
Good points here. We do have a plant and seed trade forum where anyone can post any seeds they would like to offer at any time. http://garden.org/forums/view/...

If new members are interested in seeds, they will find the forum.

Although, I think this would defeat Joanna's initial idea, which was to send all of her seeds to someone here that can distribute for her since she has so many seeds she would like to share and it would be more cost efficient for her to send them bulk.
May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

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Apr 18, 2013 8:19 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
kqcrna said:Dave and Trish are noticeably absent on this thread Whistling


I'm lurking. At some point I will be needed but at the moment the conversation is strong and I'm taking a backseat. If consensus is reached and I'm needed I will be glad to serve the group's desires.
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Apr 18, 2013 8:45 AM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
We also have a welcome Help area for new members and a link or notice to the new members could direct them to a free seed offer.
I too have seed I would gladly send in bulk to someone who might like to offer free seeds

Cinda
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Apr 18, 2013 9:41 AM CST
Name: Karen
Valencia, Pa (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Echinacea
Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder Celebrating Gardening: 2015
That's the issue Cinda. Lots of members have extra seeds that they're willing to donate to a bank. But who wants to be the banker, storing, dividing, packaging, and mailing those seeds? Not me. It could be a full time job.

Karen
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Apr 18, 2013 10:47 AM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
Well, I still like the idea of a seedpacket category and a system similar to the acorns, primarily for the benefit of new members. That way, participation is voluntary on the part of the member who has seeds and no one would have to be a central bank or keep track. The system would manage it. And if someone had a major disaster or need, that could be handled totally separately. And, of course, individual trades are still an option.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Apr 18, 2013 10:56 AM CST
So Cal (Zone 10b)
Cat Lover Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
I agree with Woofie. It seems like a nice, warm, welcoming gesture.
"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln
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Apr 18, 2013 2:41 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I'm kind of frustrated that almost no one has ever asked for any of my seeds through the ATP Plant Lists.

Maybe there is value in encouraging new members to ask - at least pointing o0ut that there is an easy way to find people eager to give away certain things as a Welcome Wagon. I think most people are the opposite of greedy - we hesitate to ask for a favor "for nothing" because we DON'T want to appear greedy.

If the only structure were just a page of links to individual members' Plant List Categories of "Seeds for Postage" or "Seeds for New Bees", that would reduce the the work load for any one person. However, now requesting 10 seed packets might mean asking 10 people each to send a bubble mailer.

>> an easy way to find people eager to give away certain things

Having some kind of centralization WOULD help that, but I've learned that the requesting/filling/mailing part is too much work for me, at least until I retire! And I agree with it being undesirable to have any setup that requires too many rules or overhead.

>> Lots of members have extra seeds that they're willing to donate to a bank. But who wants to be the banker, storing, dividing, packaging, and mailing those seeds?

TRUE! On the other hand, I WOULD volunteer to divide and label bulk seeds. I enjoy that and have an efficient system. Since I also have a case of 250 bubble mailers I won't use up for many years, I would donate a hundred or 150 to jump-start the thing.

I thought that if some people were willing to donate bulk seed, I would enjoy splitting them up and then mailing them out to MULTIPLE people who WERE willing to act as "decentralized bankers". Then if one person sent enough petunia seeds to make 100 packets, 5 "decentralized bankers" could each store 20 pkts and add those to their "Virtual Seed Packet" lists.

Then a new person could easily find a few "decentralized bankers" with SOME seeds they want, browse those "decentralized bankers'" lists until they found one banker with MULTIPLE seeds they want, then ask that banker to send a pkt.

It would reduce the problem of "Rick still hasn't sent my seeds" because each banker could say "I'm really busy right now, can you wait X months?"

I would have thought that once money was taken out of it, there would not be much problem with "Rick never sent my seeds". If postage is paid by PayPal and we get confirmation numbers when we mail them, it is pretty transparent and open. Probably make it clear that sending $2.50 for a bubble mailer or 50 cents for a padded first class letter is "at your own risk".

I think it would also have "positive feedback", because most people who get something generous that they DO want, tend to give back whether they have to or not. As long as contributing seeds doesn't obligate a person to also donate unlimited amounts of time, I bet a lot of people would ask for 5-6 different packets, then send back 10-50 of some other variety.

Dr. Deno said:
To Plant a Seed Is a Noble Deed
Propagation Is Conservation

I would add: to give away a seed for free is a wise investment.
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Apr 18, 2013 3:13 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Hmm, I'm trying too think of some low-key way to start up in a very small way to explore the interest.

People interested in offering some of their seeds this way could make categories within their plant lists.
Then send links to their categories.

I would post those links a blog article or whatever else Dave suggested, and I would update as more people joined or dropped out.

The key element would be Dave posting a prominent link to that page-of-links.

BUT maybe we want to wait until someone thinks of a very low-overhead way to keep it from attracting seedy-greedy people. Jonna suggested limiting it to no more than 5 (or 10) requests to each donor. Maybe that is enough deterrent by itself - the limited number of requests plus $2.50 to mail a bubble mailer will cost the requester 25-50 cents per pkt.

Or, if we do tie the seeds to the existing acorn system, that would certainly motivate new members to contribute photos, data suggestions or whatever!

I strongly assume that people who already have hundreds or thousands of acorns from database contributions won't be rushing to acquire dozens of packets - they probably have specific desires for specific varieties.
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Apr 18, 2013 4:10 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
Rick, I think the suggestion was not to tie the seeds to the acorn system, but rather to initiate a new, but similar, system for seedpackets. Separate from acorns, but managed in somewhat the same fashion.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.

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