Daylilies forum: Dip to Tet Conversion questions

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Name: Trudy
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Amaryllis Orchids
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PeachLily
Nov 13, 2012 11:20 PM CST

I can't seem to find an answer to this question.
If a Diploid daylily is converted to a Tetraploid...then are there 2 versions of that same flower? Could it be obtained or sold as say, the Tetraploid version of "X"?

Does the flower look the same on the actual plant that has been converted? I understand it's offspring would have double the chromosomes.

I'm not converting...just trying to understand conversions.




If I had but two loaves of bread, I would sell one to buy flowers, for they would feed my Soul.--The Koran
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Nov 13, 2012 11:58 PM CST
Yes, I have both versions of MALACHITE PRISM. I haven't seen a bloom on the diploid version yet, but I got a beautiful bloom or two this summer from the TET. MALACHITE PRISM that I got from Maryott's. And I understand that the plants and blooms should look essentially identical except that the tet version might have slightly larger blooms and sturdier scapes, and I'm not sure about other characteristics. The reason they do the tet conversions is so they can make crosses with tetraploid daylilies in order to add diploid characteristics to the tet gene pool. And I'm interested in the tet conversions of some of the dips with large green throats. It seems like you just don't see those in the tets, so of course I'm dying to end up with a tet mini or small with a huge green throat -- and teeth! Always good to have a goal! nodding

If you look at the Floyd Cove 2013 General Listing under "T" you can see how they list the tet conversions for sale.

http://www.distinctly.on.ca/floydcove/

And here is a picture of my TET. MALACHITE PRISM bloom:
Thumb of 2012-11-14/Betja/0a5022
Betty
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
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tink3472
Nov 13, 2012 11:59 PM CST
Yes if a daylily is converted then there is 2 versions of the same flower. And yes it can be sold as TET xxxxx it just can't be registered.

The flowers generally look the same, but usually bigger than the dip version. I have heard that the tet conversions have shorter scapes than the dip but not 100% sure if that is true or not.

Yes the offspring would have double the chromosome just like the conversion does.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Trudy
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Amaryllis Orchids
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PeachLily
Nov 14, 2012 1:49 AM CST

How very fascinating!!

I now understand it goes like this....
Double the trouble.... (converting ain't easy)
Double the chromosomes...
Double the pleasure....
Double the fun......!!
(and double the budget... please!)
Rolling on the floor laughing

Thank you both very much!
Lovey dubby
If I had but two loaves of bread, I would sell one to buy flowers, for they would feed my Soul.--The Koran
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Nov 14, 2012 5:49 AM CST
I have had several conversions and this is the latest, TET LILLIAN'S THIN ICE. It is about 1/3 larger than the dip and really stiff, which means it has more substance. It is also about 6" shorter than the dip version and more green.
I did not get to use it this year because it had its first bloom in August and I stopped setting seed in June, I did save all the pollen from every bloom, I knew Michelle would want some.

Thumb of 2012-11-14/spunky1/c3504d

Dip The form is very different with more white than green tones.
Thumb of 2012-11-14/spunky1/97ef4d
Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
Region: Wisconsin
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philljm
Nov 14, 2012 6:07 AM CST
Love seeing the comparison Fred, thanks for posting it. I knew you were converting some of yours.

Isn't genetics fascinating? ~Jan
Name: Trudy
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
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PeachLily
Nov 16, 2012 10:32 PM CST
That is so interesting Fred! Thanks for the comparison pictures.

So do you do your own conversions? Or do you place orders for tet conversions with someone else?

Having read that the mortality rate is extremely high....just wondering how many plants get treated in order to obtain that one conversion? And then, does one have to wait until the bloom to be able to tell if the conversion was successful?? Oh my...

The amount of energy and dedication it takes to convert a daylily without "converting" yourself is as fascinating as the genetics to me. (Colchicine is "effective" on both animal and plant species?!.. Blinking )

I had the best time reading Sydney Eddison's book...
A Passion for Daylilies, The Flowers and the People...

Tells all about the early hybridizers and the Fay/Griesbach team that did the first conversions....and created a huge scandal proclaiming that it would be the end of Diploid daylilies....the Tetraploid and Diploid camps were divided at the 1961 convention....(fascinating read).

But then you guys probably already knew that! I think you hybridizers are as fascinating as your flowers are beautiful. Lovey dubby



If I had but two loaves of bread, I would sell one to buy flowers, for they would feed my Soul.--The Koran
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Nov 17, 2012 6:12 AM CST
I have two people that have done conversions for me, I do not do any myself. I am hoping Michele will start learning to do it, we have talked about how good she would be at doing it but so far she hasn't agreed.

The death rate is pretty high, so when I want something converted I have plenty of it because the chances are slim that I will see them again. Three years before LILLIAN'S VAPOR TRAIL was registered I took three pots to have treated, all three (two fans in each pot) died. Last year I did the same and all lived so I will know this coming bloom season if any are converted by having the pollen checked under a microscope. Tet pollen is larger than dip.

Also another problem with conversions, they are really bad about getting crown rot. I did not know this until last year when I went to pick up LVT and the person that does this for me mentioned it. Well I had taken him some pollen from FRED MANNING Temple 2005 to check and it was a full Tet I had converted a couple years ago, I had set seed with it last year so I knew it had some tet pollen, plus the blooms were totally different from the dip. I devided it about a month ago and all four fans died from crown rot.
Thumb of 2012-11-17/spunky1/8759a9

Today a lot of the big guys are doing dips again just to get something worth converting to get that gene pool into there tet program. Dips will always be the backbone of daylilies, they were here first and will always be here no matter how we abuse them.
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Nov 17, 2012 6:24 AM CST
I would LOVE to kill your daylilies for you Fred nodding
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
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bearsearch
Nov 17, 2012 6:54 AM CST
After reading this thread I think I'll forget my plans of trying to make conversions with the daylilies and stick with trying it with lilies. I had read some articles on how to do it but they never said anything about the high death rate or rotting problem.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
Irises Cat Lover Daylilies Region: California Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Betja
Nov 17, 2012 8:09 AM CST
When I googled WAXEN SPLENDOR I came across this information with great pictures from Bill Waldrop. The second item (Jan. 23, 2009) is where it begins, and then the Feb. 4th update is above it. Really interesting!

http://billsdaylilycorner.kennesawmountaindaylilygardens.com...

Betty
Name: Laura Eiras
Huntsville, AL (Zone 7b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Cat Lover Ferns Hostas Lilies
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Ditchlily
Nov 18, 2012 10:49 AM CST
Here are Autumn Wood and Tet Autumn Wood
Thumb of 2012-11-18/Ditchlily/d0d740 Thumb of 2012-11-18/Ditchlily/146ce8

I also have Tet Marked For Lydia. Not the best picture from last year, will have to see if I can find one from thsi year.
Thumb of 2012-11-18/Ditchlily/9e0055
Name: Trudy
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
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PeachLily
Nov 18, 2012 4:36 PM CST
Oh gosh, that Autumn Wood is lovely....I've had it on my list and crossed it off a dozen times...but from your pictures I think I need it. :)

The Tet on the right? The dip looks more complex and beautiful...that is so interesting....thank you for the comparison.

If I had but two loaves of bread, I would sell one to buy flowers, for they would feed my Soul.--The Koran
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
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bluegrassmom
Nov 18, 2012 4:55 PM CST
I grow the dip and just LOVE it!
Name: Laura Eiras
Huntsville, AL (Zone 7b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Cat Lover Ferns Hostas Lilies
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Alabama
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Ditchlily
Nov 19, 2012 7:26 AM CST
That was not the best picture of Tet Autumn Woods, but I hav to agree. I like the Dip better.

A clump shot.
Name: Elizabete Rutens
(Zone 10b)
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ElizabeteRutens
Nov 19, 2012 9:58 AM CST
Laura, I keep meaning to ask: is the tet version of Autumn Wood shorter than the original dip's 24"? Elsewhere I've read that conversions tend not to be as tall, though the stalk is heftier.

Thanks - Elizabete
Name: Laura Eiras
Huntsville, AL (Zone 7b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Cat Lover Ferns Hostas Lilies
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Alabama
Image
Ditchlily
Nov 19, 2012 4:27 PM CST
I am not sure. I have never measured it and compared it to the Dip version I have. I will try to remember to do so this spring.
Name: Elizabete Rutens
(Zone 10b)
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ElizabeteRutens
Nov 19, 2012 5:03 PM CST
Thanks, Laura! : )

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