Lilies forum: lily Lifespan

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Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
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ge1836
Nov 17, 2012 10:17 AM CST
Does anyone know if there are varieties of lilies that just poop out after a few years?
Some of mine came on strong but are now thinner stems and smaller bulbs.
Garden Treasure is one as id Shocking.
The asiatics never seem to stop multiplying and while I am thinking about it the shrinking lilies all seem to be LA's or OT's.
Garden Treasure 2010
It didnt bloom thiis year due to late frosts


Shocking 2011

Thumb of 2012-11-17/ge1836/3c8915
this year smaller shorter stems but the spring was a killer.Cold and late frosts,nonthe less the bulbs have increased but stems are thinner.

Thumb of 2012-11-17/ge1836/6ebd73
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Nov 17, 2012 9:57 PM CST
Stargazer. Slow decline with age. I have one of the earliest versions and scaled it at least four times over the last fifteen/twenty years or so. Young plants grow well and look good with the largest flowers but after about the third year in blooming it's all a gradual decline. And transplanting the older bulbs (to different locations) doesn't help either. A decrease in flower size is especially notable--as is stem diameter but not necessarily the height. I've had two or three newer version Stargazers here too and they acted pretty much the same way.

I don't have Garden Treasure or Shocking so I can't speak on those, but LAs multiply like rats here and have to be lifted and divided every three/four years and the OTs I have don't multiply very fast but are long lived so far.

I think your thread is very interesting because I've often thought-- that with so many new cultivars and varieties haveing been introduced over the last twenty/thirty years, just exactly which ones would emerge as long lived and which ones would fall by the wayside. Your early observations in this area may eventually be observed and proven by many to so true. I, too, would be very interested in what others have observed, especially in the Division VIII catagory.
[Last edited by Roosterlorn - Nov 17, 2012 10:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
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gwhizz
Nov 18, 2012 4:09 AM CST
Great starting point Lorn..-Stargazer is a long lived beauty[look at my ATP plant register] Tangos dont do well here,.Tiger woods/Dizzy dont seem to like their 2nd year here,.,Trumpets just thrive,.,many species just fizzle out,.,.Red asiatics [Blackbird-Landini-Monte Negro]dont seem keen to continue life here,.,!Such is life!-Anthony Shrug!
lily freaks are not geeks!
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 18, 2012 4:35 AM CST
I am such a controlling megalomaniac I just hate to loose any lily I have coached along.
On the otherhand I like being able to plant new ones. My gardens are not endless so I manage what turf I have.I will rotate new lilies thru the areas.
I leaf compost every other year and fert twice a year with Bulbtone. I used to plant with Bulb - Boost but it has disappeared pretty much.The bag says "better than Bonemeal"
The bonemeal is a mystery to me. I use it when planting clems but now I am thinking it should go into the hole with everything.
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
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bearsearch
Nov 18, 2012 5:41 AM CST
I think individual circumstances and environmental conditions play a big part as to what lives and dies. My Stargazers are 10 years old and this was the best year ever, tallest thickest stems and the largest most numerous flowers, where as my Casa Blanca, same age, have all but disappeared from my garden with only one small stem left. My original OT's, Friso, Scheherazade and American Heritage though they have not multiplied much get bigger and better every year, also 10 yrs. old. I have an LA that has multiplied like a weed here and grows 4-5 ft. with huge and numerous yellow spotted flowers every year Cant kill it even when I tried, planted a few behind a huge variegated polk weed and they still grow and flower yearly. Yet my Asiatics always decline after a few years here. They haven't died yet but are smaller and have fewer flowers with the exception of Night Flyer which has both grown in numbers, height and amount of bloom. One interesting thing I found this year is that where I had planted Dizzy about 5 years ago, they had disappeared after 2 years but this spring I found 4 or 5 little oriental stems about 6 inches long, poking up through the ground cover I had planted to take their place.
Thumb of 2012-11-18/bearsearch/6412d8 Scherehazade
Thumb of 2012-11-18/bearsearch/2b1278 American Heritage
Thumb of 2012-11-18/bearsearch/747659 Stargazer
Thumb of 2012-11-18/bearsearch/ca6578 Unknown LA
[Last edited by bearsearch - Nov 18, 2012 5:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Nov 18, 2012 6:56 AM CST
Jo Ann--watch Shocking this year and see what it does. Sometimes when they put on a heavy show of flowers one year, they sort of go on vacation the next. I see your Shocking produced many new plants--that could also contribute to less growth, etc. I'm a big user of Bulbtone also. I see they have a cheaper (organic) version of Bulbtone which doesn't have the trace elements in it. I accidently bought four bags on sale.

Anthony, I looked for your picture of Stargazer but couldn't find it. Sue has a picture posted which comes closest to resembling my 'early version' of Stargazer.
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 18, 2012 7:10 AM CST
Last year was no gague as to how lilies fared.We had 3 weeks of warm weather in March,extreemy unusual.People were filling pools and looking for hanging baskets. April however was a traffic accident. Many nights of heavy frost on early emerged plants and especially lilies.
Asiatics hit worse because their bloom tops were farthest developed. OT's and Orientals bloomed because the come later.I think the heat and cold confused all the plants.

Next spring will tell all.If the Martagones that didnt bloom and other lilies that only grew halfway will return in full glory I will be transported. Its going to be a long winter wait.

Brian: My gardens are 5 years old.Your information on the Casablancas is great.I will plant some OT's in their place and stop believing its my fault that they seem to be shriveling up no matter how faithful I am to regular fert.
I have other lilies
Scherazad
Dont shoot but I am not a fan of Stargazer.Bad life experience association with it,thats all.
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
Nov 18, 2012 9:27 AM CST
Great topic, Jo!

It seems my Orientals fizzle out after a couple of years. That may be because we're on the line for hardiness for them. So far the OTs have staying power, and the LAs seem to last well for me.

I too hate to lose a lily, and since I have quite a few of Lisa's I will have to get into scaling.
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 18, 2012 10:19 AM CST
Its clear now that I will have to replace my orientals.I dont think I have many. I do love the OT's and LA's but some of mine are going fast. I have has Garden Treasure for 5 years and its getting smaller and fewer blooms. I see Garden Pleasure and its so similar its uncanny.
Once I work out a color combination in an area I hate to mess it up because one element dies.

MAINIAC
Nov 18, 2012 5:53 PM CST
Weather can be a huge factor. Early warmth followed by frost led to storter stems this year for me. Do you fertilize? It can make a huge difference. Ph can make a difference too!
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 19, 2012 4:21 AM CST
I leaf composted the whole garden in fall of '11 and always plant bulbs with Bulb boost which is hard to find now.After the first season I fert just before bloom with Bulbtone ,also after bloom.
I suspect its the awful spring we had. Naively I expected them to increase in height and bloom from 20 10 the second season they were planted 2010.
Thumb of 2012-11-19/ge1836/da7bb0
this was 2011 ,not as big but wonderful
Thumb of 2012-11-19/ge1836/b6a37f
and 2012 this year,shorter and thinner stems

Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Nov 19, 2012 8:59 AM CST
It's pretty clear even from the sampling of postings on this thread that environment and culture have the most to do with lily longevity. It is true that different species lilies may have genetics that more or less dictate length of life, but the climate and culture still play a huge role, even in those. In general, the nature of hybridized lilies is vigor, and the longevity is commonly lengthened. However, there is the danger of inbreeded genetics, causing said hybrids to be weak growers. usually, hybridizers cull these, but sometimes they are deemed "too good to toss" for other reasons, and make it to market anyway.
Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
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gwhizz
Nov 20, 2012 2:31 AM CST
Each year of multipication plays a big part as well.,.I have been lucky to sit back and watch 'Silk Road' year after year,also, Starburst Sensation, and Nymph,...They all have their own traits.,,but, , as Rick explained above' climate, culture[and Im going to add another one], care-seem to influence results,.I know sometimes I am lazy, and because of the quantity of pots/lifes demands/ weather fluctuations I do leave a few to 'fry'-There is just nowhere else to put them [ in a choc-o-blok] lily garden[of pots] Thumbs up -Anthony Thumbs up
lily freaks are not geeks!
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 20, 2012 4:06 AM CST
Its getting crowded here too.My aime is for a perennial garden with lilies not a lily garden with perennials. I want a balance for viewing from my deck.The deck is where I visit with friends and DD and SIL sit in the evening after work.

With masses of lilies its difficult to compose a garden so all varieties stand on their own instead of getting lost in the crowd.
I anticipate some lilies not returning,hence the thread.I want to give the best care I can to ensure I will have them.
Thanks everyone for input.I see now that some lilies just dont live forever.

I will go ahead and order some new faves and hope the loosers from last few years finally give up and leave new spaces for the new bulbs.
Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Image
gwhizz
Nov 20, 2012 4:12 AM CST
You are a legend 'Jo Anne Thumbs up
lily freaks are not geeks!
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
Image
ge1836
Nov 20, 2012 4:20 AM CST
O M G I had no idea there was a live soul out there.
Its pitch dark here at 5 AM.

I learn so much from everyone who has a passion for their own particular faves. I am new to gardening on the scale thats possible here. I am also not getting any younger so am not making new gardens.
I just want to create a beautiful space to enjoy with friends.
I moved in with my DD#2 and left a small lot neighborhood. Inviting me former neighbors and friends is how I stay intouch with them.
Name: Anthony Gloriosoides[ sure!]
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Image
gwhizz
Nov 20, 2012 4:24 AM CST
Jo Anne-Im about to go to bed!!-very weary eyed[Australia]- Ive been working hard on the 2013 Lily Show-Anthony Thumbs up
lily freaks are not geeks!
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
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ge1836
Nov 20, 2012 4:36 AM CST
Have a great sleep.
Your lily show was a treat last year.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Nov 20, 2012 9:26 AM CST
gwhizz said: as Rick explained above' climate, culture[and Im going to add another one], care-seem to influence results,.:-Anthony Thumbs up


You've got your thinking cap on, Anthony! Thumbs up
But that is exactly what I consider to be the "culture" part:
--- your (additional) watering regime
--- how deep you plant
--- fertilizing
--- soil amendments
--- growing in a pot instead of the ground
--- etc., etc. (changes one makes to mother nature's overall climate)

While it is true that most lilies prefer Bach over Lynyrd Skynyrd, I think that most would really like Indian sitar music. I don't know what they would think about the didgeridoo. Hilarious! Rolling my eyes.
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
Image
ge1836
Nov 20, 2012 9:44 AM CST
Sitar is perfect.
I will use it when posting a Smilebox of next springs photos.

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