Plant Database forum: Clear Crystal® Alyssum

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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Nov 25, 2012 11:13 AM CST

Plants Admin

Lobularia maritima species, trademarked tetraploid Alyssum "series" by Ballhort. I just declined a proposal to add to the DB as I'm unable to find cultivar names. If anybody has further information it would be appreciated.

Here are a few links:
Hybriizer: http://www.ballhort.com/Growers/advancedsearch.aspx?srch=Cle...
Patent: http://www.ptodirect.com/Results/Patents?query=PN/%287915504...
Trademark 77030174: http://www.ptodirect.com/Trademarks/77030174
Evan
[Last edited by eclayne - Nov 25, 2012 11:20 AM (+)]
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Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
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Joannabanana
Nov 25, 2012 12:07 PM CST
You will find the patent info in PanAmerican Seed. Clear Crystal Lavender Shades PAS501338, Purple Shades PAS501342, White PAS501344

Most Ball Seed plant varieties are a PanAmerican Patent. See if you can get a catalogue from your Ball Hort area rep. I have a 2012 and expect my 2013 catalogue next week. The web site sometimes doesn't have the patent No on it, but the printed catalogue does
Hope it helps
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Nov 25, 2012 3:04 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks for the patent application information Joanne. Do they list cultivars names in the catalog? Does someone knows how to find/search patent applications? The only engine I've found is this one: http://patft.uspto.gov/
Evan
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 25, 2012 3:18 PM CST
Same as what the original DB was.
http://panamseed.com/plant_info.aspx?phid=003505332002869&di...
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Nov 25, 2012 3:21 PM CST

Plants Admin

'Lavender Shades' is a cv. name as opposed to a trade name?
Evan
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 25, 2012 3:22 PM CST
Look on the link: They call the Scientific name: Lobularia maritima
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Nov 25, 2012 3:31 PM CST

Plants Admin

Yes I know, that's in the initial post. I'm trying to pin down if they've introduced these with trade names or a cv. name, which will likely show up in a patent.
Evan
Name: Joanne
Calgary, AB Canada (Zone 3a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Canadian Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Roses
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Annuals Container Gardener Vegetable Grower Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Joannabanana
Nov 25, 2012 6:06 PM CST
In my opinion, we need to consider our audience. What's important to me, as an ATP member is being able to search a plant in our database by what my plant tag says it's called. I am totally supportive of the true documented cultivar info being there, but truly, if I bought Alyssum Clear Crystal Purple Shades and took a picture of it, I would hope that I could type in Alyssum Clear Crystal and see the variety Purple Shades be a ATP search result. If I was entering this particular one, I would put the Genus Lobularia, species as maritima, the cultivar name as "Alyssum Clear Crystal Purple Shade" Trade Name as Alyssum Clear Crystal Purple Shades. But that's just me and trying to keep the info of what we see for plant tags and such usable with our database as it's set up. The way we have it set up, it's almost too rigid and resulted in compromises. For example, we can not use the "Series" field for the Petunia data base, since a huge number are with patents pending and no patented cultivar name. The choice is have a data base of "only" patented varieties or open it up to what's being sold. From what I can see, we can not enter a Trade Name with out the cultivar name, so what I have done in Petunias is put the trade name in the cultivar name as well. Otherwise our database will be very very tiny. When it come to annuals, we need to have all the new varieties, since that is what the market will be flooded with. Most new varieties will have a patent pending and not numbered or registered cultivar name. So if we don't have a separate option for pending patents, then our best choice is putting that tradename in the cultivar field.

This entire name thing is awful. It doesn't seem that we have a great option for annuals, specifically, since those change so frequently and tons of new varieties pop up every season. Perhaps there needs to be some thoughts put towards the database and how to handle the mass amount of "new annual varieties" each year of many plant genus
[Last edited by Joannabanana - Nov 25, 2012 8:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
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kqcrna
Nov 25, 2012 9:28 PM CST
I agree, Joanne. I don't even understand some of the questions about the database names, let alone the answers. And I've gotten a lot of messages for entries I've made, saying they were being moved to another plant name. I understand wanting to have the latest, greatest undated names, but if you get too technical it will discourage home gardeners who never heard of your newfangled names. And I think it also discourages people from making new entries.

It happens that I entered Allysum Clear Crystal White a long time ago, and it was approved by someone. Did I screw up again?
Alyssum (Lobularia maritima 'Clear Crystal White')

Karen
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
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SongofJoy
Nov 26, 2012 5:36 AM CST
I agree with a lot of the above. Shrug!
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Nov 26, 2012 5:43 PM CST

Plants Admin

I can respond to Karen's frustration with the frequent name changes. This is a new database and it started out with the incorporation of considerable amounts of data from other databases that either are out of date, such as The Plant List, or are regrettably lacking in quality control, such as many nursery websites and other gardening websites. We're gradually updating the information, using more current and more reliable sources, and once that has been done, the name changes should be quite infrequent and shouldn't create so many problems.

There's no reason that this should discourage new entries because these are now checked against the current sources and are either approved or declined for a valid reason.

Your Clear Crystal White entry looks fine to me, and even if it is updated at some point with the addition of a patented cultivar name, it still will show up as Clear Crystal White in a search of the database because the trade name overrides the cultivar name in the sorting and alphabetization processes.

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