Apologies in advance, I have a lot of questions...I have a volunteer in a weedy part of my yard that I'm cleaning up this fall. Do you think it might be a Northern Red Oak? The leaf lobes have bristles or barbs on the end. It's been there for 3 years that I've noticed and is about 30" tall (guessing, I forgot to measure). I don't know if the color will improve, it just started changing very recently - maybe it's too drab to even consider keeping? I had a giant Paper Mulberry come down in a winter storm last year - the circumference of that had been 12.5 feet! I'm actually liking this little guy and I'm considering keeping it and planting it where the Mulberry was if the roots aren't too deep yet. If it is a N. Red Oak, I've read they are quite susceptible to disease so do you think I shouldn't keep it? I am also wondering about the growth rate - I've read 24" per year on average. Right now I have a Sun Valley maple in that spot where the Mulberry was that's about 8' tall, but I've been really unhappy with it. Barely any fall color and spotty/ratty color when it does turn, and many of the new growth tips die off in the heat of summer (Virginia, z6a). I've only had it two years so maybe it's not settled in or getting enough water in the summer heat. So, keep the Sun Valley or move it to make room for the unknown oak? Last question; is the trunk shape on the young unknown oak ok or too oddly shaped to form into a healthy/good trunk? Many thanks for any input!

Hi Cindy:

That youngster is certainly an oak seedling from the Red Oak group of Quercus sp. As you've noted, it has the giveaway ID of bristle tips on the leaf lobes.

Which of the Red Oak group? Fair question, and hard to absolutely ID on such a young plant of which you've only divulged a bit of info in those pictures. Being able to see the buds would help, which begin to separate similar species.

**It could be a Northern Red Oak (Quercus rubra), though it doesn't seem as "plump" through its leaf's midsection as a normal Red Oak leaf.

**It could be a Pin Oak (Q. palustris), which has the thinner midsection but typically has longer lobes relative to leaf length.

**It could be a Scarlet Oak (Q. coccinea).

**It could be a Shumard Oak (Q. shumardii), though that species has more "scalloped" sinuses between lobes.

**It could be Black Oak (Q. velutina).

**Finally, depending on where in VA you are, it might even be Southern Red Oak (Q. falcata).

Know also that species within the Red Oak group can hybridize, and produce seedlings with intermediate traits - just to confound you. The best way to reduce the field of possibilities in this kind of situation is to identify nearby trees from which the acorn may have come. If you live in a regular residential neighborhood where all the trees are planted, this will be an easy exercise to determine which trees it could have come from. If you live by a woodland or forest where there are many kinds of trees, then it may be more difficult.

Here is a great reference which I will always offer to those interested in oaks:

https://www.fs.fed.us/foresthe...

I'd put the oak in the prime spot, and move the Sun Valley Red Maple to somewhere that your rainfall drains by. That way, you don't have to preferentially water it as much. The oak is likely going to do just fine, as it had to have arisen from a nearby tree which has grown old enough and successfully enough to produce acorns. Every native species of tree (or any plant) will have some sort of insect or pathogen that wants to bother it occasionally - that is the balance of life that keeps any one species from overwhelming its environment.

Which makes me want to mention - and not as being preachy, but worth noting: Bringing Nature Home by Doug Tallamy is a book every gardener should read. It will help everyone understand that an insect bite or two is not the end of the world for plants, but trying to eliminate every insect could be the end of the road for many birds and other fauna that rely on those insects to live and raise their young.

Thanks for all that info - I only had a chance to graze through the link but I'll definitely read it. I never knew about Black Oaks, and after a quick look at your link I'll have to look more closely at that one. I did take a drive around the neighborhood - btw, I live in a residential area that's very close to the Blue Ridge Parkway and within walking distance of the New River. I don't know if you're a sports fan but I'm a half hour from Virginia Tech and about 45 minutes from the Bristol Motor Speedway, in the southwest corner of Virginia. I have to say I didn't realize there were so many similar oaks in town and in my immediate neighborhood, and they're all rather ratty looking. No definitive shape or crown, branches like Halloween trees, and a distinctly rusty brown colored "red". That's assuming this came from one of those which seems logical. I have friends with several hundred acres of partially cleared land and they plan on leaving it wild except for the 30 or so acres they cleared. I might ask them if they want it - I think I'd prefer something with better fall color since I'm limited to how much more room I have for trees. Thank you so much for posting all that info for me! In my drive around town I saw that several people have a vivid red maple that's small (for a maple). They may be Autumn Blaze. My Sun Valley has already lost all it's leaves, and it dropped them early last year as well. However it's loaded with buds now. I'll give it another year - it's in a great spot for natural rain now on a slight slope - but I probably should have supplemented water during the harsh summers to help it. You're always a great source of information John, thank you - you help get me pointed in the right direction for me to do additional reading

Well, you sure live in an area where you can grow just about anything - the eastern Mixed Mesophytic Forest. I have seldom traveled through your area of Virginia, since it was not on my flight path to Washington DC and northeast while I was trustee for a couple of national organizations and would drive through VA three or four times a year.

Very long ago, I traveled to Radford VA - that's near you, I think. I took a bunch of young Bottlebrush Buckeyes to a professor there that had a thing for plants that attracted butterflies.

You will find that oaks are quite the interesting genus to explore. The name of the oak often has nothing to do with what its fall color may be. There are ratty yellowish brown fall colored Red Oaks, as well as Scarlet Oaks, and same with Black Oak. Fall color can be seen in mature trees, and then chased through growing seedlings out from the favored parent. It isn't easy to find reliably colored grafted selections, though there are a few around.

The best course of action: go to a nursery that sells seedling trees in the fall, when the plants are coloring up. Then, you can select from thousands of individuals for the trait you want. That's how I started my oak collection here at Viburnum Valley.

Alternatively, collect acorns annually and sprout them yourself. You can select from successful seedlings and grow on in your landscape the ones you like. Give the rest away, a la Cindy Acorn-seed.

Lastly: you may want a tree that's already well on its way in size. More costly, but more assured of what color it will be each fall. I would still advise to see that plant in person when it is in color. Caveat emptor...

Here are some plants that grace Viburnum Valley:

White Oak (Quercus alba) from 2006


Red Oak (Quercus rubra) among other species, from 2006


Swamp Chestnut Oak (Quercus michauxii) two weeks ago

I yelled so loud I startled my cat, lol. I live in Radford! I don't know why, but when someone randomly mentions a place where I've lived I feel famous
I've never heard of the Mixed Mesophytic Forest before and I'm eager to learn about it - I'm glad the internet is at our fingertips and that I don't have to drag out weighty encyclopedias as an adult. I absolutely love the colors in your Red Oak and that's the range I'm looking for. I'm originally from coastal Connecticut and I miss the fall colors there tremendously. I do believe I will take up your idea of visiting nurseries in the fall that sell trees. I love to drive and a 12 hour road trip is nothing to me - this hunt is something to look forward to next year, and in the meantime I'll have the time to educate myself. Thank you so much John Oh, and I finally noticed you're in Kentucky - we're practically neighbors!

Well, I'll try to tone it down - no need to be startling cats, especially handsome orange boys.

I took some updated images of those oaks and some others.

White Oak





Red Oak in the crowd




New one! Japanese Emperor Oak (Quercus dentata)




Good stuff...

Speaking of Doug Tallamy, he will be releasing another book titled "The Nature of Oaks." I believe it will be available this March.

I planted a very young red oak last Fall, and it's establishing very well. The chickadees are already thanking me.🤗