Daylilies forum: Need help with a few ?s about my new seedlings!!

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Name: emily
East Tn (Zone 6b)
Daylilies
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Redhorseeg
Feb 10, 2013 11:54 AM CST
Hi all! Just wanted to pick yalls (lol) brain about my first attempt at seedlings.....most of mine are up and started nicely...some as high as 4-5 inches....my main ? is ....

Is it normal for them to start to droop just a little once they get that tall? Mine are all very green and healthy with no bacteria (so far) but one or two are leaning a little ....is this ok or should I be worried? I have them in a coconut husk seedling mix and I water with a peroxide/water solution....and once they are up good i water them with a half dilute mix of miracle grow.....

does this all sound right or should I be doing something differently? I just worry so much about them and I want to try to do everything right!
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Feb 10, 2013 12:43 PM CST
Could you take a photo for us to see? I look for droopy foliage, because that is one of the
things I cross for, so at 5 inches I do see a bit of a droop or the foliage beginning to bend downward rather than growing straight up. At around 18-24 inches I see or want to see a nice rounded arching of the foliage.

There are many different methods used, and it's pretty much what works best for each. I personally
do not continue watering with a peroxide solution after planting the seeds, but I do sterilize (heat) the soil before planting. Also, I use miracle grow as well after the plants have their second set of leaves. I'm trying more fertilizer on some plants this year just to experiment.

If I see a straight down droop of foliage, the plant is telling me it is in dire need of water. That's
happened a few times as I sometimes miss one getting enough water.




Name: emily
East Tn (Zone 6b)
Daylilies
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Redhorseeg
Feb 10, 2013 2:29 PM CST
thanks for the reply mistyfog! I can try to get a photo uploaded but it may not happen...my personal computer has a virus and at work they wont allow us to upload anything unfortunately....sorry Smiling As far as what i would think of as "arching" isnt really what the few are doing.....its more of an all- of -a-sudden flop over like someone broke the leaf....it does help just a little if I havent watered yet for the afternoon but the two or three that are doing it stay that way....it may just be that they are weak seedlings...Im not sure Shrug!
Name: Mona
Guntown, Ms (Zone 7b)
I love nature & everything outdoors
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monalisa18
Feb 10, 2013 8:29 PM CST
I will take a shot. I haven't had seedlings droop or flop unless something is wrong. The ones that I did have droop had been eaten by Fungus Gnat larve. They are tiny tiny white worms. They eat all the roots off the young plants and they will eat all the inside of the seed turning it into a dry shell. If you find this is your problem, let me know and I'll post a solution, or atleast something that really slows them down.

Oh yes, also, I had a few that were broken off by a silly frog that lived in my greenhouse. But these were broken off in the green leaf, not down in the crown or roots.

Do you have cats??? I've heard that they will sometimes try to eat the young green babies.

Ok, I know that there are more reason for leaf droop, so maybe someone else will help. I do agree that a picture will tell alot.

Hope this helps, Mona
Name: emily
East Tn (Zone 6b)
Daylilies
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Redhorseeg
Feb 11, 2013 3:25 PM CST
Hi Mona! You know.....now that i think about it my husband and I have had a prob in the last few weeks with TINY knats in the house...where my seedlings are till i finish my greenhouse.....I bet thats what it is !!! What can I do to get rid of the little buggers? I really dont think its the cat or anything else because there would be chunks missing...its just a random two or three
Name: Mona
Guntown, Ms (Zone 7b)
I love nature & everything outdoors
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monalisa18
Feb 11, 2013 10:37 PM CST
I'd take one pot that has damage and very very carefully look to see if you have any roots left on the plant. While you ever so gently remove the soil from around the new little crown and roots, look for a tiny, thread size, quarter to half inch long little devils made by the devil to drive us seed lovers crazy. If you see this thread size monster crawling around, then you have them. You may have them and not see them, they are that small.

Michell recommended the following and it worked. I did loose a bunch of seedling, but I had about 900 cups of them planted with 2 in nearly every cup. so I had a lot. After treating with the Bayer, it slowed them down and then in about 2-3 weeks, most were gone. Most all of mine were planted in Solo 16oz cups so I just sprinkled a very small amount around the babies and watered it in.

I copied Michell's treemail to me:


Sorry you are having so much trouble with the gnats. What I use for the fungus gnat larvae is the Bayer Tree and Shrub granules, you just sprinkle them around the plant and water it in then do not water heavy for 10 days, just a surface watering. That way the roots have time to absorb the chemicals. It is supposed to last a year inside the plant (don't know how, but people say it does) http://www.bayeradvanced.com/tree-shrub-care/products/12-mon... Also, you can use the "Bayer Advanced Complete insect killer soil and turf" to hurry up and kill the suckers until the other can get going http://www.bayeradvanced.com/lawn-care/products/complete-bra...
You can get these at Lowes or HD. I've never used gnatrol but some people say it works and others say it doesn't. Some people say pouring bleach water in the soil will kill them also, but I don't really know.

As for the adults, the best thing to do is let the top surface of the soil dry out before your sale and hopefully the gnats won't be flying around. You could possibly spray some aresol bug spray in the general area and this may repel them for a bit. The adults are hard to get rid of because they don't feed on anything so they don't ingest the insecticide.

Me again: I put the yellow sticky traps in my greenhouse and caught thousands of the grown gnats. I tried several kinds of spray, but nothing seemed to phase them. I dread planting my seed this Spring because I know I will have the same problems but I hope the Bayer will help me. Good luck, Mona
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Feb 11, 2013 11:13 PM CST
I had a HORRIBLE problem with fungus gnats when I started my seedlings inside. It was disgusting. I started my seedlings under lights, and had closed the area off with plastic, so they didn't get in the rest of the house, but it was still HORRIBLE! I was told that fly strips are the best way to get rid of the adults, but you still have to treat the soil. I bought a spray for fungus gnats, and that did get rid of them right away. Sorry, but I used the bottle up and no longer have it, so I don't know which brand it was. I sprayed the soil really well with it, and didn't lose any seedlings. Several people told me that putting up those sticky fly strips are the best way to get rid of the problem to begin with. If I ever get up the nerve to start seedlings inside again, the first thing I'll do is hang sticky fly strips up! I found them at the dollar store and Home Depot for 5 strips for a dollar. That sure was cheaper than the spray I bought!
Natalie
Name: Leslie Mauck
Chapin, SC (Zone 7b)
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LALAMBCHOP
Feb 12, 2013 6:34 AM CST
Emily,
How are you doing with the gnats?
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Feb 12, 2013 6:49 AM CST
If I had mine inside I would definitely use the sticky traps for sure. Mine are all outside so it would be a waste for me so I use the Bayer products that Mona mentioned above (that I told her about). A lot of hybridizers use the Bayer Tree and Shrub in their greenhouses, Bill Waldrop, Larry Grace to name a couple. There are several on the email Robin that talk about using it (can't remember who) and that's where I learned about it in the first place.
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
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Natalie
Feb 12, 2013 7:25 PM CST
Those sticky fly strips work really well in a greenhouse too, according to several people I've talked to that have used them there. A friend who used to own a huge nursery said he'd go insane without them, and always had them hanging up in his greenhouses. I saw them, but never thought about them being for fungus gnats until I mentioned my problem to him.
Natalie
Name: emily
East Tn (Zone 6b)
Daylilies
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Redhorseeg
Feb 24, 2013 7:23 PM CST
Hi! So sorry not to get back with everyone!! Ok.....so im still trying to figure out if its gnats or not....i looked thru the dirt very carefully and cant seem to find anything.....HOWEVER...I do have some more specific info about something I noticed on them...

When I get down VERY close to the seedlings I can see what almost look like white transparent spots on the leaves....It looks INTERNAL within the leaf.....almost like leopard spotting....which to me seems like some sort of fungus.....Anyone got any ideas??

Im starting to get very worried....been thinking about repoting....should i do that?? They seem to be getting worse but are hanging on....I have been treating with a dilute mix of bayer....I think if they all die I may very well too....LOL
[Last edited by Redhorseeg - Feb 24, 2013 7:26 PM (+)]
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Ontario, Canada (Zone 5b)
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Anne
Feb 25, 2013 1:53 PM CST
Teeny tiny cream/light flecks or stippling within the leaves can be a sign of spider mite damage. I'm new to caring for daylily seedlings too and its the only pest problem I've encountered so far. If you have a spider mite infestation, you would probably see what looks like tiny spider webs on the underside of the affected leaves if you look closely.
Name: Leslie Mauck
Chapin, SC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Butterflies Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Container Gardener Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Hostas
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LALAMBCHOP
Feb 26, 2013 6:23 AM CST
Could you post a pic of the damage?
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Feb 26, 2013 7:25 PM CST
When I had spider mites on the seedlings inside, I mixed up a tiny bit of Dawn liquid with water
and washed, then rinsed off the foliage. Had to do that a few times before the plants were ready
to go outside, but it did help. Gets rid of the aphids too. The plants began to look better right away.
I look for the tiny webs to identify spider mites.

I washed each leaf individually, rubbing my finger along the length of the leaf. If aphids, you will
feel a sticky substance on the leaves when doing this, feel the tiny aphids, and see the larger
ones.

Are the leopard looking spots only on the oldest leaves? If so, that may be a natural dying of the
outside leaves as the new center ones emerge. Of course, the natural dying spots are more of
a light yellow or such is the case from what I've seen.

The larvae of fungus gnats are almost transparent. Very hard to see and so tiny. About the length
of this dash. --- Double the width of the dash for the approximate width of the larvae.

If none of the above, I would guess that it is mold, mildew, or other fungus.

Other than that, are you watching to see if water is coming out fast from the bottom when you water
them. Sometimes the first run through of water will only go down the sides of the pots, and the plants
won't get the benefit of that. Have to repeat adding water until the bottom of the pots show a constant
drip drip.

Also, the potting soil may be the dark type and difficult to determine wetness. If you lift the pot and it
feels light, it needs water. Water one and feel the weight to get a baseline for judging the rest. I have
dark soil this year and missed watering a few sufficiently because of this. Now I feel the weight of each.


[Last edited by mistyfog - Feb 26, 2013 7:32 PM (+)]
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