Roses forum: Here's my mystery rose

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Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
Apr 28, 2010 7:51 AM CST
I bought this rose at Chamblee's in the sale tent. It originally looked like a hybrid tea rose, and I don't usually buy those, but for $3.00 what the heck. It then morphed into something quite different and I began to think it was The Dark Lady. Now I'm thinking it could be Sophy's Rose even though my other Sophy's Roses (labeled as such from David Austin) doesn't bloom nearly as early as this one, and the fragrance is a bit different. Here is the NOID from Chamblee's.

Thumb of 2010-04-28/emoryterri/789f92
Terri
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
Apr 28, 2010 7:58 AM CST
Then here is my Sophy's Rose for comparison.

Thumb of 2010-04-28/emoryterri/544eb3
Terri
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Apr 28, 2010 9:10 AM CST
Looks like one of those Sir John Betjeman. I got one from GVR, waiting patiently (HA!) for leaves.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.47529
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
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Steve812
Apr 28, 2010 9:16 AM CST
I assume the Chamblees NOID is own-root. Is the other one own root or grafted?

I ask because my observation is that Sophy's rose frequently has that rare little pleat in the central petals which I think I see in your NOID, top. And the color behavior seems to match pretty closely. The fact that they are different ages, on different rootstock, or in different locations could at least partly explain the different timing, I think.

Sophy's rose had a very distinctive shrubby form when I grew it. It was both very vertical and very well branched. I think it took a few years for it to top out at almost 5 ft. But none of my other roses had the same high branching and stiff vertical stature.
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
Apr 28, 2010 9:44 AM CST
I've dug around and could not find a graft so it must be own root. The NOID and the Sophy's Rose from Austin's are actually the same age.

It could be Sir John. It is a blooming fool with little care at all!
Terri
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 17, 2010 9:14 AM CST
OK, I saw a Dark Lady in person this past weekend and I do not think my NOID and the Dark Lady are the same. My NOID's blooms and just too big and, in person, the colors don't quite match. In fact, I've never seen an Austin with such huge blooms. Perhaps Lady of Megginch? The Austin website does describe the Lady of Megginch blooms as being huge......I like the Sir John suggestion, it does seem to be the closest in color and bloom form. But then Chamblee's would have had to have gotten a sample from Canada, possibly.

I'm still trying to match up the blooms from the NOID with the blooms from my Sophy's Rose. These NOID bloom are still much larger. I think I mentioned on another post that I really need that NCIS instand DNA ID kit! That would be sooooo cool!
Terri
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 24, 2010 7:47 AM CST
I'll, cross post on this thread as well.

I e-mailed a couple of photos to Chamblee's for help in identification. Mark e-mailed back stating that they felt that this definitely was an Austin rose, but not one currently in their sales list.

Am consitering my next move. Perhaps an e-mail to Autin USA..... Rolling my eyes.
Terri
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
Image
Steve812
May 24, 2010 8:49 AM CST
You might want to take more photos, first. I'm afraid I cannot distinguish the rose in the first photo from that in the second photo except for a very subtle shift in color - the kind that typically happens on Sophy's rose as the blossoms age. The size, shape, and number of petals all seem to be about the same, as does the color. Are there more definite differences in foliage and frame?
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 24, 2010 9:29 AM CST
Oh, I compaired my NOID with my Sophy's Rose (I have three) for David Austin's. I thought at first it was a Sophy's Rose, too. And I would have been happy with that as I'm going to use the three I've got in a new bed--one more would have been icing on the cake. But they don't bloom at the same time, the NOID's blooms are much larger, and in person the NOID doesn't have the same color tint from start to finish as the Sophy's Roses do. If you could see them in person, the NOID's blooms seem to stay a more organgy color in the center. The bluing us more slight than appears in my photo and stays only at the edges of the outter pettals, if it appears at all. This NOID gets a tremendous amount of hot, humid sun. The fragrance is different as well. And it looks like this almost all of the time. This is one of the photos I sent. It is the size of the blooms that is the stumbling block. And ALL the blooms are that size! My Sophy's don't even come close to that size. That is a Catahoula hound in the bottom left. She's a pretty good sized dog. My Sophy's Rose blooms would be more the size of the light colored splotch on the lower part of her flank. Also Sophy's leaves are darker for me and they start to drop off the lower part of the canes in the heat. The NOID bush is about a foot taller that the Sophy's. Hmmmm!

Chamblee's did take a good long time with the photos and measurement were taken.

Thumb of 2010-05-24/emoryterri/63ef65
Terri
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 24, 2010 9:40 AM CST
And then here is another I sent. I think it pick up more of the color variation.

A really puzzler, isn't it? But still fun!

Thumb of 2010-05-24/emoryterri/c235ad
Terri
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
Image
Skiekitty
May 24, 2010 10:02 AM CST
ooh, I want!!!!!!!! I just checked mine out today, STILL no leaves! Sad :( Sad grr!!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 24, 2010 10:15 AM CST
Toni, Zuzu doen't think it is Sir John. I bought my NOID three years ago and Sir John wasn't available in the US then. But Sir John is now on my Austin order for this fall or next spring. I just periodically place an order with them and they ship when available.

I think we do have to consider very strongly that this is not a rose that Chamblee's currently sells.
Terri
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
Image
Steve812
May 24, 2010 10:25 AM CST
So it's like Sophy's on steroids?

Verrrry interesting. I would have guessed that the smell would be the clincher, but I have experience with the same cultivar smelling different in different parts of my garden... There is a definite olive green caste to the foliage of your mystery rose that might distinguish it; does your Sophy's rose have that, too?

Maybe Toni is right, SJB appears to be a little orangish near the center, too.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
Image
Skiekitty
May 24, 2010 10:27 AM CST
Don't take my advice.. I'm a moron! Only roses I seem to have a grip on are the blue ones.. and not even those! If Zuzu says it's probably not, then, please, it's probably not!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
Image
Steve812
May 24, 2010 12:42 PM CST
There are so many roses! And some of them are very changeable. I think I'll refer to it as Sophy on Steroids or SoS until a more definitive ID shows up. The flowers on my Sophy were about three inches across. So if these are much bigger than that, then this rose has monster flowers for a DA rose, and I want one, too.
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 24, 2010 1:24 PM CST
I would have to say that these bloom are easily 5" across. My Sophy's are at the 3"-3.5" mark. I do use Mills Magic, but I don't think steroids are included in the bill of materials.
Terri
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses
Image
Steve812
May 24, 2010 3:26 PM CST
Terri, I think maybe you have found the perfect rose. I have been saying for fifteen years that the perfect rose would:
1) be very generous with its flowers
2) repeat through the season
3) be very fragrant
4) be resistant to disease
5) be attractive in the garden as a shrub.

For propagation purposes, it would grow well on its own roots. And for wow factor it would have large flowers.
It sounds like you've got the rose with all these qualities.

If DA roses can't ID it, I think you should propagate it and sell it on e-bay as Horatio Alger or something like that. I'd buy one.
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 25, 2010 9:01 AM CST
Hilarious! Hilarious!

Shoot, if I send photos and description to Austin USA, they may want it back!
Terri
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Roses Raises cows Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
May 25, 2010 11:05 AM CST
Sell them a cutting.
Porkpal
Name: Terri Dunning
NE TX, zone 8a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
emoryterri
May 25, 2010 11:44 AM CST
I agree Hilarious!
Terri

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