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Avatar for KrlosLau
Feb 11, 2022 11:11 AM CST
Thread OP

Hi all and thanks in advance for all the help.
We bought this plant a little over a month ago. It's a Ficus Altissima (aka Yellow Gem) and we are noticing that it's showing some signs of stress. Not sure what it is or what to do to help it. There are different kind of spots, making me think there are multiple things happening at the same time. The branches also have some brown spots (pictured) which I am unsure if they are normal or a sign of stress/sick.
The plant is located on a corner by a south-facing glass door in San Diego, California (see picture). The distance between the glass door and the plant is about 5 feet. Also, that backyard area is covered by a gazebo (you can get a glimpse of it in the picture) so the light is somewhat filtered.
After we first brought it home, we waited until the top 1-1.5 inches of soil was dry, then watered it. It took approximately 2 weeks for that to happen, so we have been watering at that interval, always checking the soil dryness.
The only other thing I noticed (once when I took it outside for watering) was some sort of white/transparent winged bug (maybe a whitefly from my google search, not sure) at the bottom of the tree trunk, but I haven't seen those bugs or any other bug on the plant ever again.
On the other hand, despite all those brown spots and marks, the plant is shooting new branches (see pictures).
Any thoughts? What could the cause be and what can I do to help the plant?

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Feb 12, 2022 8:07 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Hi & welcome!

I think your plant may need to be watered more often, and possibly more thoroughly. When some soils get very dry, water doesn't soak in instantly, it just runs out of the holes. Try watering thoroughly, several times a few minutes apart, until it feels really heavy again.

When you take it outside, keep it in the shade. Sunburn can occur on indoor plants quickly, especially after being in a corner for a few weeks. If it starts fading or leaning, moving it closer to the window would help with that.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
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Avatar for KrlosLau
Feb 12, 2022 11:53 AM CST
Thread OP

Thanks!
I just started this hobby a few months ago and I'm glad there are communities like this where we can find help and advice.
I see what you mean. I was always touching the soil for watering but I always had my doubts about the amount of water. As you said, it does happen that water trickles through and down to the seep holes relatively quickly.

Is there a rule of thumb about the volume of water we should aim for? I water Saturdays and I'm actually working on it right now. I poured about 1 gallon of water on it. It's in a 12 inch pot.

Also, what should I do about those leaves? Should I cut them fully? Should I cut the affected area so it doesn't spread any more?

Thanks again!
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Feb 12, 2022 1:04 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
My pleasure! I didn't see any leaves that I would remove, yet. The temp and humidity in your house, and the rate of growth of your plant will determine how quickly the soil dries. Aim for adding more before the soil becomes literally all the way dry. Picking up plants can be a good way to gauge how dry the soil has become. They feel much more lightweight than when they were just watered.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
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Feb 12, 2022 11:35 PM CST

purpleinopp said: Hi & welcome!

I think your plant may need to be watered more often, and possibly more thoroughly. When some soils get very dry, water doesn't soak in instantly, it just runs out of the holes. Try watering thoroughly, several times a few minutes apart, until it feels really heavy again.

When you take it outside, keep it in the shade. Sunburn can occur on indoor plants quickly, especially after being in a corner for a few weeks. If it starts fading or leaning, moving it closer to the window would help with that.


Great post.

The weight comment is spot-on.

For my plants it's not the volume of water you offer, it's how much the soil retains.
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Feb 12, 2022 11:56 PM CST

KrlosLau said:I was always touching the soil for watering but I always had my doubts about the amount of water. As you said, it does happen that water trickles through and down to the seep holes relatively quickly.

Is there a rule of thumb about the volume of water we should aim for? I water Saturdays and I'm actually working on it right now. I poured about 1 gallon of water on it. It's in a 12 inch pot.



Depends on the moisture in the soil and the drainage for me.

If it was mine, I'd consider that 1 gallon (weekly?) could be provided through a super-slow wick system from a water reservoir to the soil. Might take days but can provide moisture slowly and as needed (not recommending, just saying it works).

Or that same gallon could be be poured on the soil once or twice within a minute and have huge run-off and little absorption.

Somewhere in between works.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Feb 14, 2022 11:05 AM CST
Thread OP

Thanks Humboldt.

I have been pouring the water slowly on top of the soil, trying to maximize the absorption. But based on how quickly it has drained through the soil, I agree I need to do something different to make sure the soil is actually absorbing the water and that water is not just draining through.

Is there a link or video you (or anyone reading this post) that could point me to about proper watering methods?

All searches on how to water talk about frequency and soil dryness but not specifically about the watering method. I did watch a video about watering a peace lily where they basically got the whole nursery pot into a bath of water and let it there for a few minutes. Then removed it and let the excess water drain out before getting the plant back into the decorative pot. I am not saying this is a good method, just saying that it would be great to see some videos or explanations on the how (method).
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Feb 14, 2022 7:08 PM CST

KrlosLau said:
Is there a link or video you (or anyone reading this post) that could point me to about proper watering methods?


Just this discussion: The thread "Watering houseplants" in Houseplants forum

If I don't know a plant well enough from memory I go by weight.

Heft it before you water, water and let drain, heft it again.

If it's substantially heavier, you're good.
If most of the water ran through without being absorbed you should be able to tell.

Also, keep in mind dry soil absorbs very slowly and let more water run through.

If a plant is very dry I water lightly and watch the water to see how long it takes to disappear.
Once it's been moistened, a second watering 10-15 minutes later is much effective in getting the soil hydrated.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Apr 28, 2022 12:51 PM CST
Thread OP

Hi Humboldt and purpleinopp...
I hope you receive a notification about my follow-up.

I am now watering weekly and I am slowly pouring the water. I then wait 15-20 minutes and repeat the process 2 more times. I am also hefting and notice the difference. I even used a scale a few times to track the weight and have an idea of whether I was watering at an appropriate time and that soil was absorbing enough after watering.

After a couple of months of trying to fix the issue, I am afraid things haven't improved. I don't think it's worse either, just about the same.

The brown spots keep coming up on other leaves (see pictures). Three or four leaves with large brown spots ended up falling. Even one of the new leaves at the bottom of the tree is showing a brown spot (see picture). As you can see, most of the brown spots are on the edges/sides, with just one or two leaves with tiny brown spots at their tips.

A few more things I've noticed:
- The new sprouts and leave almost seem like they aren't growing to their full potential. The leaves appear small with no much growth after months and "wrinkled?" (see pictures).
- While watering, I noticed there are some winged bugs in the soil. They look like gnats (see best pictures I could take). I did a search and didn't see anything similar except perhaps fungus gnats, but not quite.

Any further recommendations? Should I be concerned about those bugs? How to treat them?
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Apr 28, 2022 5:01 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
In the 3rd pic of your original post, showing the whole plant, it looks pretty good. A few occasional blemishes are normal, and individual leaves don't last forever. I'm not sure there's much wrong with it.

If the roots have run out of room to keep growing, the amount of foliage that can be sustained may have reached the maximum. If so, the plant could drop leaves that aren't able to make a worthwhile contribution, especially in a low-light spot. IF the roots will slide out and the soil stays in the shape of the pot and there is a "root pie" at the bottom, that would be evidence that the roots have run out of room to keep growing. To fix that, lay it sideways out of the pot, use a shovel to chop off the root pie, remove the old soil, then put back in the same pot or a new pot, depending on the size of what is left. When in the new pot, the top of the soil level should be at the same level on the trunk as it is now - but there would theoretically be a whole bunch of new soil underneath for the roots to grow into.

I can't see the pests but if you think they are fungus gnats, you can put "mosquito bits" or "mosquito dunks" in your watering can. The BTi in these products will kill the larvae, so it will take a few weeks until all of the adults die of old age before you see a difference.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Apr 28, 2022 9:40 PM CST
Thread OP

Thanks purpleinopps!
I wasn't too optimistic about the pests pictures. I see it, but I know what to look for.
We've had the plant for about 4 months. There are currently about 4 leaves total with brown spots. Out of these 4, probably 2 happened after correcting the watering. Then there were three leaves that have fallen. The plant has about 35 leaves total.

I see you said that some brown blemishes are normal. Sorry to insist on this (I'm just learning)… But does the number of affected leaves sound normal over a period of 4 months?

Thanks again for all the feedback!
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Apr 29, 2022 7:23 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
My pleasure! Yes, it sounds like normal adjustment to a lower light environment. Also, as the wood lignifies, the leaves will be lost. Leaves are usually only attached to fresh growth. A spot right in front of a window would be much better if that is an option.

Looking back at the pics again, I noticed the toys, so you probably have kids or babysit kids. Please be aware that Ficus plants have latex sap in them. If someone were to pull a leaf off and get the sap from inside the plant on their skin, it can cause a rash like poison ivy, and if it gets in eyes, can require medical treatment. If you have a spot in a room where the children do not play, where your plant could be right next to a window, that would probably be ideal.

Regardless of the placement, aim for consistency for the soil, allowing excess to flow away when watering, and not allowing the soil to get too dry.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
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May 15, 2022 8:07 PM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
Japanese Maples Deer Tropicals Seed Starter Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: Michigan
Houseplants Foliage Fan Dog Lover Container Gardener Birds Wild Plant Hunter
I rec'd your message and am glad to respond. The first thing I would say is that a very high % of issues for which people arrive at forums in seek of remediation are related to poor root health and/or compromised root function. No one can offer meaningful advice re watering intervals without a good working knowledge of the physical characteristics of the grow medium you're using and your watering habits; but it only takes a minute to learn how to determine what your current appropriate watering interval is.

First, let me say that the idea a plant needs more water when the top inch or two of the soil feels dry to the touch is pretty much a recipe for over-watering, unless the pot is quite shallow - 5" deep or less. In deeper pots, say 10" deep, and if you're watering correctly, the roots in the top inch or two of the grow medium don't do much in terms of absorbing water and the nutrients dissolved in the water, serving primarily as plumbing and anchorage. This is because fine roots die back in the top inch or two of soil as the soil dries down. In a pot that is 8-10" deep, while the top inch or two of soil feels dry to the touch, the bottom 4-6" of the medium can be completely (100%) saturated. This kills fine roots, limits root function due to lack of oxygen, and sets the table for fungal root infections that wreck root health.

Since root growth always precedes top growth, the fine roots killed by inundation must be regenerated before top growth can begin again. This cyclic death and regeneration of roots is very expensive in terms of energy outlay and can rob the plant of an enormous % of its potential in terms of growth rate, vitality, eye appeal, and the plant's ability to defend itself against insect herbivory and disease pathogens.

Images posted subsequent to the first post tend to conform the probability of over-watering. The necrotic areas at leaf margins and tips are consistent with too much water and the several malformed leaves are very likely from a cultural deficiency of Ca(lcium). A cultural deficiency is different than a physical deficiency due in that there may well an adequate supply of Ca in the soil/ soil solution, but the lack of oxygen is (culturally) limiting the plant's ability to take up Ca. Ca must be in the nutrient stream at all times if the plant's cells (and by extension, tissue) are to form normally. Symptoms of a Ca deficiency are often holes or tears in leaves, and the malformed leaves already mentioned.
Some of the leaves also show signs of oedema/edema. The primary driver of oedema is over-watering, but anything that slows the nutrient stream can exacerbate the physiological disorder. Low light, cool temps, still air, heavy pruning, and deficiencies of Ca and Mg can work collectively with over-watering to increase likelihood and severity of the disorder.

To be sure, it's important to rule out the possibility you're under-watering. The best way to monitor moisture levels deep in the pot, where it's far more important than the top 2", is by using a wooden "tell" you can make from a wooden dowel rod. I'll leave a short piece I wrote about using a "tell" in case you want to invest a buck or two. Good water management is an art, and a highly aerated, fast-draining grow medium is much more forgiving than media based on peat and other fine particulates like compost, coir, sand, composted forest products, ...., and makes everything (especially watering and fertilizing (are you fertilizing?) easier and more rewarding.

Using a 'tell'
Over-watering saps vitality and is one of the most common plant assassins, so learning to avoid it is worth the small effort. Plants make and store their own energy source – photosynthate - (sugar/glucose). Functioning roots need energy to drive their metabolic processes, and in order to get it, they use oxygen to burn (oxidize) their food. From this, we can see that terrestrial plants need plenty of air (oxygen) in the soil to drive root function. Many off-the-shelf soils hold too much water and not enough air to support the kind of root health most growers would like to see; and, a healthy root system is a prerequisite to a healthy plant.

Watering in small sips leads to avoid over-watering leads to a residual build-up of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil from tapwater and fertilizer solutions, which limits a plant's ability to absorb water – so watering in sips simply moves us to the other horn of a dilemma. It creates another problem that requires resolution. Better, would be to simply adopt a soil that drains well enough to allow watering to beyond the saturation point, so we're flushing the soil of accumulating dissolved solids whenever we water; this, w/o the plant being forced to pay a tax in the form of reduced vitality, due to prolong periods of soil saturation. Sometimes, though, that's not a course we can immediately steer, which makes controlling how often we water a very important factor.

In many cases, we can judge whether or not a planting needs watering by hefting the pot. This is especially true if the pot is made from light material, like plastic, but doesn't work (as) well when the pot is made from heavier material, like clay, or when the size/weight of the pot precludes grabbing it with one hand to judge its weight and gauge the need for water.

Fingers stuck an inch or two into the soil work ok for shallow pots, but not for deep pots. Deep pots might have 3 or more inches of soil that feels totally dry, while the lower several inches of the soil is 100% saturated. Obviously, the lack of oxygen in the root zone situation can wreak havoc with root health and cause the loss of a very notable measure of your plant's potential. Inexpensive watering meters don't even measure moisture levels, they measure electrical conductivity. Clean the tip and insert it into a cup of distilled water and witness the fact it reads 'DRY'.

One of the most reliable methods of checking a planting's need for water is using a 'tell'. You can use a bamboo skewer in a pinch, but a wooden dowel rod of about 5/16" (75-85mm) would work better. They usually come 48" (120cm) long and can usually be cut in half and serve as a pair. Sharpen all 4 ends in a pencil sharpener and slightly blunt the tip so it's about the diameter of the head on a straight pin. Push the wooden tell deep into the soil. Don't worry, it won't harm the root system. If the plant is quite root-bound, you might need to try several places until you find one where you can push it all the way to the pot's bottom. Leave it a few seconds, then withdraw it and inspect the tip for moisture. For most plantings, withhold water until the tell comes out dry or nearly so. If you see signs of wilting, adjust the interval between waterings so drought stress isn't a recurring issue.
Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
Last edited by tapla May 15, 2022 8:07 PM Icon for preview
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May 15, 2022 9:55 PM CST

Excellent read tapla, thank you for the time it took to write that and all the good info.

You lost me on the calcium so I'll have to read up on that but everything else basically mirrors my own experiences.
Avatar for KrlosLau
May 19, 2022 6:19 PM CST
Thread OP

Wow! Thanks so much for the information tapla and I'm glad you saw my message and were happy to help.

The plant has dropped a couple more leaves since last images and more brown spots continue to appear on previously healthy leaves.

I am currently watering once a week, and as I mentioned on one of my messages, I tracked daily weight, and before and after watering, to try to gauge when it was time to water. I saw the weight slowly going from about 18 lbs to 16 lbs in about a week, and the decrease in weight flattening after about 15.8 lbs. After observing this happening for 3 weeks, I figured that was around the time to water. The two pounds of water absorbed during watering (16 to 18) meant about a quarter gallon of water, which I thought was reasonable. I know that wasn't a perfect science but I gave that a try to have something to go by.

Based on your message:

1) I'm using water from a reverse osmosis system because I was told not to use tap water, so that may be the source of calcium deficiency. I know you can just leave tap water to aerate for a day to release the chlorine. Should I switch to tap water?

2) I am fertilizing with every watering. I'm using a 10-10-10 (NPK) liquid plant food.

3) interesting you mentioned oedema/edema. I searched on Google and I don't see any of my plant leaves with those sorts of signs. Can you tell me where did you notice it?

4) I will definitely try the tell method and see what I come up with. I'll report on it as soon as I get some data.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Jun 4, 2022 10:09 AM CST
Thread OP

Hi tapla,

I've been using a wood dowel as you suggested and I am reporting back with some "data".

First, I have to say I wasn't (I am probably still not) quite sure how to "read" the dowel. After some research, it seems I should look for a dirtiness/soiled in the dowel more than an actual moisture/wetness line. I've found it's not easy to tell at which point/height the dowel is wet and where it's not. But it's easy to see the "dirtiness" (change of color).

My pot is about 11 inches tall. After 2 weeks without watering, the dowel is coming out dirty/soiled only on the bottom 3-4 inches. The leaves aren't wilting yet. There are some leaves growing, but some of the once healthy leaves are now showing brown spots.

If I am reading the dowels correctly, should I wait until the dowel comes out completely "clean" (dry) or close to? Or like you said, if I see the leaves wilting, adjust watering?

Appreciate the feedback to understand 1) if I am reading the dowel correctly, and 2) if I should wait until it comes out completely (or close to) clean.
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Jun 6, 2022 9:05 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
If you are letting the soil get that dry, I think that's too dry. Picking up pots is the best gauge of the moisture level. If you notice a significant reduction from when the soil was moist right after being watered, it's time to add more water. If it kills your plant because you didn't wait another day or two, that's a soil problem, not a water-adding problem. That's much too complicated for me, I just water all of my plants often enough so the soil never gets dry. I have well over 100 kinds of plants in pots, I can't go around checking dowels and wondering if the soil is dry enough, there's not enough time in the day.

The roots are throughout the soil, so if most of the soil is dry, most of the roots have no moisture to deliver to foliage, a very stressful situation for a non-cactus plant. The reaction will manifest as lost leaves.

Using an unglazed clay pot can further eliminate the need to worry about root rot ("overwatering.")
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Aug 22, 2022 10:16 AM CST
Thread OP

Alright, so I think I've eliminated the issue with the browning spots which apparently had to do with overwatering.

Nonetheless, the plant keeps growing, even taller, but almost all new leaves are growing curled (like some of the pictures above show) and do not seem to ever straighten up.

Any ideas what this may be? Could it need more direct sunlight?

Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the older leaves do not have the yellow coloring these variegated plants are known for. Any ideas why this may be?
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Aug 22, 2022 11:10 AM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
Japanese Maples Deer Tropicals Seed Starter Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: Michigan
Houseplants Foliage Fan Dog Lover Container Gardener Birds Wild Plant Hunter
Images please?

Leaves - Reading

When leaf tips or margins abnormally curl/cup upward, it's usually an indication the plant is trying to retain moisture – most common causes are dry soils or high temps; or, if you are using supplemental lighting, the lights might be too close.

When leaf margins curl down, especially if leaves droop abnormally from the base of the leaf to the leaf tip, there is probably an issue affecting root function or health. The main causal suspects would be over-watering or soil compaction causing an inadequate supply of oxygen to roots, a root infection, or a TDS/EC (fertility/ dissolved solids/ salts) level too high, which can limit water uptake.
Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
Avatar for KrlosLau
Aug 23, 2022 11:34 AM CST
Thread OP

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