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Nov 26, 2022 8:45 PM CST
Thread OP
UT
I decided this year to rake my leaves and put them on the garden to decay into the garden. Someone told me to put nitrogen on my leaves
Is that the best thing to do?
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Nov 26, 2022 9:32 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
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Best? Perhaps, but certainly a good thing to do. Leaves will decompose over the winter - compost in place - a healthy solution to the question of what to do with all those leaves.
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Nov 26, 2022 9:42 PM CST
Name: Zoรซ
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
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Welcome Lcottrell!
You know how in the forest all those trees lose their leaves and rot on the forest floor and create compost for the trees? It works without the addition of nitrogen. Sometimes that technique helps if you're piling a lot of undecomposed material onto a garden during the growth season to offset a possible nitrogen deficit, but in winter, just let 'em rot on their own.
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Nov 26, 2022 10:07 PM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
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?) Using COMPOSTED LEAVES- no nitrogen needed in your compost pile. The microbes will indeed consume some nitrogen from your pile, but it's temporary.
?) Using FRESH LEAVES OR COMPOSTED LEAVES on soil surface as a mulch, no extra nitrogen needed because of the leaves- any nitrogen shortage would only be on the very top inches of the soil and within the leaves layer.
?) Using FRESH LEAVES (not composted) tilled or turned into the garden?
You might use added nitrogen- as the decomposition now would be in the root zone and the microbes may compete with your plants for the available nitrogen, but the effect is so temporary, I've never worried much about it. I do fertilize my transplants in the spring in the garden anyway...

I use lots of leaves, and often borrow my neighbors leaves for my garden. I usually pile them in a corner of the garden for the fall and winter, then in the spring use them as a top-dressing mulch, or till them in as soon as soil can be worked.

"Using Leaf Compost" from Rutgers cooperative extension
(Edit: corrected link below)
https://njaes.rutgers.edu/fs11...

This is about fresh wood chips, but also discusses the nitrogen issue:
https://agrilife.org/etg/fresh...
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Last edited by kenisaac Nov 30, 2022 8:03 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for RpR
Nov 27, 2022 10:41 AM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Lcottrell said: I decided this year to rake my leaves and put them on the garden to decay into the garden. Someone told me to put nitrogen on my leaves
Is that the best thing to do?

What are you going to grow?

Unless you do no till, the leaves will not be rotted in spring; if you turn them into the soil then you will have a globby mess.
My Father and my self tried that once each, the soil was wet and and and sticky and very hard to work. (Dad warned me but I was a stubborn German) . SO, then the garden microbes spend time trying to decompose the leaves , not help your plants.

Best to work them into the soil now IF you are going to turn the soil over in spring.
IF you grow corn, a little Nitrogen in spring is not a bad idea but do not add any fertilizer till spring and if you do , look on line for what pre-planting fertilizers works best for your crops.

I do , after planting pile leaves deeply on my potatoes and if I have enough other parts of the garden; by fall over a foot of leaves is down to two inches or even less.
I will by happen chance, on occasion broadcast by hand dry fertilizer over the leaves, more to get rid of part bags of fertilizer than any thingn . I tip my hat to you.
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Nov 27, 2022 11:20 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- ๐ŸŒน (Zone 8b)
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Hi & welcome! The result of this effort in any particular location relies on the current soil structure, the weather over winter, the presence or lack of worms or other decomposing animals, type of leaves, whether some leaf debris was already there or not...

You may need to rake leaves aside in places to start seeds or in rows to install already-growing plants, but try to keep the ground as covered as possible.

The effect might not be ideal after just 1 winter, but after doing this for several years, you should notice an amazing transformation of the dirt into soil. The soil structure and fertility will improve, moisture will be moderated and not muddy when wet / cracked when dry, will not dry as quickly, unless stepped on, will not be as prone to compacting. I try to step in cultivated areas as little as possible. Using square-foot patio pavers as places to stand &/or paths helps a lot.
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Nov 28, 2022 6:27 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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RpR said:
Best to work them into the soil now IF you are going to turn the soil over in spring.

I don't know about Minnesota... But in my area... turning leaves into the soil is a definite no no.

I tried it with one of my planting beds at a previous garden and nothing grew there for years.

As Tiffany suggested... works a lot better to keep them on top of soil as God intended... move aside as needed to install plants.
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Nov 28, 2022 6:57 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
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Lcottrell said: I decided this year to rake my leaves and put them on the garden to decay into the garden. Someone told me to put nitrogen on my leaves
Is that the best thing to do?


Welcome! to the site!

Unfortunately, Ken's first link gives 'page not found' but you can google similar search words and look for university .edu sites for answers.
As you can see, you'll get opinions and anecdotal reports here. We love to discuss these kind of things.
What's your goal- permanent mulch area or enrich an area where you'll be digging?

I have a line of trees about 20 feet wide where I want fallen leaves or mulch to be permanent (until I decide to plant something) so I throw leaves there and don't add anything.

I also put leaf piles in my vegetable garden. Left untended, they may not decay much different by spring. Yes, the dirt under them will be wetter come spring, you may want to move the leaves if you do early spring crops. So I have left at least half the vegetable garden open, and piled the leaves so they have more "moist center" to get them to decay. I add some fertilizer, obvious to me it should help as every single compost discussion tells you that fallen tree leaves are very low N.

Adding some nitrogen and keeping the leaves moist should encourage faster decay. Rain and snow will supply some nitrogen. A good snowfall packs them down and gets them wet, then covering would keep them moist for bio activity.

Be aware, in my experience dry leaves make perfect 'vole villages.'
Dry leaves are also good for overwintering insects. This is good for good insects and birds.

It is sometimes advised you turn up the soil in vegetable gardens in winter to expose pests so they can die of predation or exposure, I guess.

By all means keep your leaves in some way. They are made up of every macro and micronutrient it took to GROW them in the first place, except for nitrogen which is very volatile.
Smiling Smiling
Plant it and they will come.
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Nov 30, 2022 8:01 AM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
sallyg said:Unfortunately, Ken's first link gives 'page not found' but you can google similar search words and look for university .edu sites for answers.


Argh!
Corrected:
https://njaes.rutgers.edu/fs11...

Thanks @sallyg for pointing out the bad link, and for attempting to look at my suggested sources as we discuss this- that's the value I find in this site!

That 'corrected' article link on using composted leaves is from Rutgers, from their agricultural extension at the "New Jersey experiment station."
And most certainly "Your experience may differ."

We all EARN that green thumb by our successes and failures.
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Last edited by kenisaac Nov 30, 2022 8:05 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 30, 2022 12:16 PM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
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That's a really good article!
Plant it and they will come.
Avatar for Rubi
Nov 30, 2022 2:58 PM CST
West Central Minnesota (Zone 4a)
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I would compost your leaves in a separate pile with a nitrogen source. They aren't going to break down very much in the winter even if you add nitrogen. Next year you can start a no-till, deep mulch system that is proven in your area if you want to. Where I live, if I covered my garden with leaves, I couldn't start my warm season plants until July.
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Nov 30, 2022 6:20 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Rubi is correct in that the best way to get compost, in quantities is to have a separate pile that you let sit for years.
I do not turn my piles over, I just keep piling on top as it drops.

I do this in both gardens and it will sit for years , 5 is not uncommon, with it being topped off every spring.
The one down South is mostly leaves from the winter covered roses , it is over 4 ft high , if full, and when the sides start to crumblin almost powder like, I will use it as a mulch .

Up North it is not as high a little over 3 ft. if I fill it to the top, as it is made of more components than the South one , leaes, old kitchen scrap and vines, so some years I will scrape off the top one foot and bury it in pit in the soil in the fall with other plant debres (I do not turn it over into the soil but genuinely bury it with at least six inches of soil cover the whole pit I dug out.)

A pit I buried in 2021, was the base for an excellant sweet corn patch this summer, but on both piles I use a compost starter, and also in the bury pits.
Jobe's is my favorite. I tip my hat to you.

Now I was not sure I would have enough leaves for covering the roses, at first, and a friend/neighbor as I wanted the leaves from his lawn when mowed/shredded them, and I said yes, SO, now I have covering a fairly large chunk of my veggie garden leaves from 16 inches to six inches deep.
I will have to move, or pile it some where not being planted or it wil keep the ground wet and cold annoyingly long.
If this spring is warm early I will plant potatoes earlier and use the old compost pile for mulch and put the leaves into the bin.
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Nov 30, 2022 8:25 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- ๐ŸŒน (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Keep in mind reading these anecdotes, organic matter does not decompose while frozen. The ground, and leaves or mulch or any other organic matter on the ground, does not freeze here in Z8, so that is why they decompose so much more quickly.

Piling leaves can create some heat, but I don't know how big a pile would need to be in Z3 or 4 to stay thawed enough to keep decomposing all winter.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
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The only way to succeed is to try!
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The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
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Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
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Nov 30, 2022 8:45 PM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
One year, twenty years ago, probably a lot more, I dug a big pit, 4x4 approx. 16 inches deep.

I do not remember what I all had that year but it was a large pile, especially of sloppy rotting vines, old fruit, and such, possibly chopped up corn stalks.
Well, to make a short story short, I covered it well in probably late Oct.; watered it well before covering.
That winter was a snowy one but you could see exactly how big my pit was as the snow melted there showing the shape of the pit most of the winter.
Could never repeat that , not that I tried very hard.๐Ÿ˜น
Last edited by RpR Dec 1, 2022 12:39 PM Icon for preview
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Nov 30, 2022 9:14 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- ๐ŸŒน (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
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That's pretty cool! The digging is next-level stuff. LOL!
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ
The only way to succeed is to try!
๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
๐Ÿ‘’๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒฝโ€โ˜€ โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“๐Ÿ
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
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Dec 1, 2022 9:52 PM CST
Name: Zoรซ
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
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...or you could do this
https://mymodernmet.com/fallen...
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Dec 1, 2022 10:27 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
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LOL Zoe - that looks like someone with way too much time on their hands to me!
โ€œThink occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Dec 1, 2022 11:34 PM CST
Name: Zoรซ
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Salvias Region: New Mexico Herbs Container Gardener Composter
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For a gardener, maybe. For an art teacher endeavoring to inspire students to appreciate both art and nature, I think it's a cool approach. Personally, I'd have chosen something other than cartoon characters, but whatever gets their attention, I guess!
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Dec 2, 2022 10:30 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
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Love the concept. But I can't devote my energy to something so temporary. I'm not an artist!
Plant it and they will come.
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Dec 2, 2022 11:00 AM CST
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: Ukraine Dahlias I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Houseplants Tomato Heads Garden Ideas: Level 1
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One good breeze and the art is history.

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