Plant Database forum: Foliage mound and inflorescence height

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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jun 28, 2013 1:12 PM CST

Plants Admin

All too often I find myself misinterpreting plant height information for a certain plant or an entire genus. Astilbe for instance, can have both a dense foliage mound and a dense flower display which can rise 1 to 2 feet or more above the foliage (see Astilbe (Astilbe 'Amethyst')). To properly plan a perennial garden I believe this information would be helpful.

I’d like to add two custom data points:
Foliage mound height:
Bloom height:
(Other terms are commonly used for certain genus, ex. Hosta-scape height. I propose “Bloom height” as a correct generic term only for the sake of consistency. If scape or other term is better suited please add to the discussion).

Add to the following genera:
Astilbe
Hosta
Ligularia
Acanthus


For certain plants such as Bugleweed (Ajuga reptans), while having a relatively large difference in bloom to foliage mound height, I don’t see much benefit in including, but please post if you disagree. I’m sure there are numerous other genera to which this can apply so please add your suggestions.
Evan
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 28, 2013 7:59 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

I can add these to just the four databases you mentioned, but I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate to add it to the Primary Plant Details? Then if they don't apply to a certain plant they are ignored.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jun 28, 2013 8:18 PM CST

Plants Admin

That makes much more sense Dave.
Evan
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jun 28, 2013 8:19 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Thumbs up
Let's leave this overnight so others can see it and have a chance for further discussion before we make it happen.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jun 28, 2013 8:21 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thumbs up
Evan
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Jun 28, 2013 9:00 PM CST
I agree I too have the problem of wondering if the height of a plant is the foliage only, or includes the bloom also. I would like to see this added.
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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woofie
Jul 3, 2013 9:08 AM CST
A little late to this party, but I agree with Lynn. I'd like to see this as well.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jul 3, 2013 9:32 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

I've added both to the Primary Plant Details, right under "Plant Height".
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Jul 3, 2013 9:57 AM CST
Hurray! Thank you so much Dave. This will work great. Thumbs up
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Jul 3, 2013 10:22 AM CST
Oh, great! Gotta go look. Smiling
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jul 3, 2013 12:53 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks Dave, it's working nicely. Thumbs up
Evan
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Jul 3, 2013 1:04 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Thumbs up Thumbs up
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Jul 3, 2013 1:06 PM CST
Evan, could you post links for some of the plants you've added that information to?
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jul 3, 2013 2:30 PM CST

Plants Admin

Leopard Plant (Ligularia 'The Rocket'), Astilbe (Astilbe 'Amethyst'), Astilbe (Astilbe 'Alive and Kicking'), Chinese Astilbe (Astilbe rubra 'Pumila').
Evan
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
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woofie
Jul 3, 2013 2:48 PM CST
So, am I correct in assuming that you are including the mound height in the inflorescence height? Just thinking that it could get confusing.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jul 3, 2013 3:27 PM CST

Plants Admin

No, these are separate size ranges. For instance Astilbe (Astilbe 'Amethyst').

Instead of a plant height of 12 to 36 inches we have:
Foliage Mound Height: 12 to 24 inches
Inflorescence Height: 30 to 36 inches

I realize these are fuzzy numbers, but we see the bloom rises approximately 12 to 18 inches above the foliage.

We might have "simpler" Foliage mound and Inflorescence heights for plants like Hosta which are in the Hosta Registry, say 12 and 24 inches respectively.

Is there one that is particularly confusing Woofie?

Edit: Maybe it would be better if I also filled in the Plant height?
Evan
[Last edited by eclayne - Jul 3, 2013 3:32 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #443669 (16)
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
Image
woofie
Jul 3, 2013 10:39 PM CST
No particular one that is confusing at this point, but I'm just thinking that it COULD get confusing. But your idea to include the overall plant height should take care of that! Well, either make things clearer or totally confuse everyone!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
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virginiarose
Dec 30, 2013 11:09 AM CST
Arg!!!! I am not getting this. Confused


@eclayne can you fix my plant data box? Not sure I did it right. 'Bright Star yucca'
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Image
eclayne
Dec 30, 2013 11:27 AM CST

Plants Admin

It's all set Susan. The only thing I changed was deleting the plant height. Yucca (Yucca gloriosa var. recurvifolia Bright Star)

This is a great example too. The foliage grows to about 2 to 3 feet, while the inflorescence grows to 5 feet. Also, thanks for adding the patent number which assisted in identifying Bright Star as the Trade Name and Yucca gloriosa var. recurvifolia as the botanical name.
Evan
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 30, 2013 11:53 AM CST
Thank you eclayne! I love this plant, it is at the top of my want list. I tip my hat to you.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood

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