RoseBlush1 said:Yup... it's in the 90s this week and you will probably continue to stay in the 90s and low 100s well into September. I am not certain when the temps in the Valley start to cool down for fall, but I live in the northern California mountains and it can stay in the 90s and 100s through October because the Valley temps climb the mountains, but then again, it's the mountains and can cool off earlier.

You are right to be worried about the olive tree. I don't know if they have a dense aggressive root mass that will cause problems. Species roses are what are called forest edge plants and can handle some shade and some root competition, but for the most part roses don't like too much root competition. If there are a lot of tree roots near the surface of the soil, you will have root competition. The feeder roots of roses can be found within the first 6 inches of the soil.

Iceberg is more shade tolerant than most roses, but it still needs no less than 4 hours of daylight. It is light colored (white) and does not have a lot of petals. A rose that is light hungry will grow tall and leggy while it reaches for the light.

There are twos reason you may not be seeing any new buds, since the previous blooms "dropped off". The first is that repeat blooming roses do not always bloom continuously, but bloom in flushes. The second is that if you did not dead head the rose and allowed it to form hips, the plant "thinks" it has completed its primary function of continuing the species and has set seed and doesn't need to bloom any more. If you see any rose hips on your rose, I think you should just nip them off and not allow them to ripen and this sends a signal to the plant that it has to start and produce blooms to attract the pollenators to help fertilize the bloom so that the plant can set seed and complete the plant cycle. That is why we dead head the roses.

Smiles,
Lyn

Thanks Lyn.. but what do you mean by dead head, and how do i know what a formed hip look like so i know what to snip?

Dead-heading is simply removing the spent blooms once they fade. It's up to the individual rose grower whether old blooms are snipped off - to promote further blooms- or left on to form seeds. Some roses make decorative hips and some do not. Here's an ATP article that has information about some roses that do make pretty (and tasty!) hips.
http://garden.org/ideas/view/c...

Great article Chelle

I am a person that needs to know the "why" of things, so I hope you don't mind if I add a little more information for Liza.

This is a very, very general explanation.

For repeat blooming roses we generally dead head the spent blooms before the rose has a chance to create hips so that we can stimulate the rose to put out more blooms.

The plant cycle is for the rose to create a bloom to attract pollenators to fertilize the bloom so that it can set seed and continue the species. When we are dead heading, taking off the spent blooms, we are interrupting that plant cycle because we are not allowing the rose to set seed and form hips. In a sense, the rose "knows" it has not performed its function of continuing the species, so it starts over and puts out more blooms to get pollenated. That's how we get repeat bloom on our roses. Of course, this is only true for those roses that are genetically programmed to bloom more than once in the season.

Some roses will continue to bloom a lot even though they have not been dead headed and have formed seeds, but for the purposes of this thread, I am ignoring those roses Most roses, once they have set seed kind of tell themselves they've done their job and stop blooming.

In your climate, you stop dead heading your rose some time in October to allow the plant to complete its normal plant cycle and rest during the winter. The rose will set seed and form hips where you have not removed the spent blooms. On some roses, those hips are simply beautiful and they are the fruit of the plant.

Allowing the plant to complete its normal plant cycle helps create stronger roses, in most cases. As always, it depends on the rose.

Smiles,
Lyn

I'm kinda an expert on planting roses wrong, so I'm gonna pipe in here a little.

Transplanting a rose is uber easy. I wouldn't be toooooooooo hung up on the exact number of hours a day a plant gets sun. My front yard is north facing so gets less sun than some parts of my back yard - some parts fry all day, others are shaded until like noon, then get 2-3 hours before the trees / neighbors' houses get in the way. A rose will tell you if it's not happy by a couple of factors: size & blooms. I had, on the west side of my back yard, about 30 roses. They were all pretty spindly & not very robust and extremely stingy with blooms. Took me almost 2 years to figure it out.. they needed more sun as they'd only get hot hot noon - 3pm sun, then that was it. So I transplanted all the west side roses to the east side & they're much happier now. There are some roses that pretty close to my house in the front yard that don't get sun until about 10-1030 am, then get sun until about 2ish, then not much after that (and none at all after 3pm). Those roses are doing just fine.. big, bushy, & bloom way better than some of the ones in full all-day sun. So, your rose will tell you what it likes & what it doesn't. If it's getting less than 2-4 hours of sun, then yea, you'll probably need it. Also, the color of the leaves can help determine a lot about how a rose is doing. Leaves that are crisp, firm, & a nice healthy "green" (green is subjective in roses. Rose leaves range from a lighter "grass" green to a deep "leathery" green), then you're doing OK. If leaves are getting wilty & soft, kinda like lettuce left in the fridge too long, you're probably over-watering. Roses are thirsty, but they also don't like to drown and hate "wet feet" (standing water where their roots are). I would invest in a moisture stick (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T4720I/). You can probably get one of those from a local nursery as I dunno if big boxes carry them. They're very handy when you have no idea what's going on 6-12" down below the surface of the ground.

Now for the transplanting part. First, figure out where you want the rose to go. Trust me, it'll save your back a LOT of pain to figure that out first rather than dig a hole, pop it in, then 2 weeks later, figure out that you hate it there. Lyn makes the great idea of putting a container where you'd think you'd want the rose to go. However, if you're anything like me, you won't see a container. So get something big & bright there.. a bird feeder, put some fake flowers in the container, put a kid's tricycle there, something. Something that's outta place & will catch your eye. Look at that spot for a week or two. Does it fit in your mind as to what your yard is gonna ultimately look like? If so, then dig your hole. If not, move it around. Figure it out. Envision what the end product of your yard is gonna look like. Don't expect your yard to look instantaneously like you see in your mind. It's taken me almost 5 years to get my front yard to what I saw it in my mind back in '08 and I'm STILL not finished with it! Gardening is a never-ending battle of wits, sore muscles, availability of what you're wanting, bugs, weeds, weather, and money (especially the last!). But when you finally get to that point, you'll be SO happy with what you have!!

Once you figure out exactly where you want your rose to go, go ahead & dig the hole. You'll want the hole at least 2x the size of the root ball. What I do is use the bucket that it came in as a guide if possible. I'm not saying dig a hole 4' deep by 4' wide. God no. I said root ball. About 50-80% of the stuff in the bucket is not root ball, but soil / junk the nursery puts in. So, for a 2gal rose, I'd dig a hole about 18" deep by at least 12" wide. If you can go 2x2, that'd be awesome, but not overly necessary. You don't have to worry about planting deep like I do (different zone, so the way I grow roses is a bit different than how you would). Once you have the hole dug, check out the soil. Try to determine what it is. You may want to amend it, you may not. If you do want to amend it, amend no more than 50% (that's the advice that we're given here in CO for strong root systems.. CA may be different) as you want the rose to grow natively & naturally in your soil & not rootcircle itself in the "good dirt". Also, talk to neighbors. See if you have gopher/vole/mole problems. I know that in a lot of areas in CA, they have gopher problems (just ask Zuzu how many roses she's lost to gophers!). If you do, you may want to invest in a gopher cage (a metal mesh "cage" that goes into the hole that you put the plant in so the gopher can't dig into the roots & eat them, killing the plant. Then go back to the other rose. Personally speaking, I'd do this late late afternoon / early evening. You don't wanna be digging in the heat of the day for health reasons AND it's (IMO) gentler on the plant. Spade around the rose (since it's freshly planted, should be super simple) and try to disturb as little soil as possible. Moving quickly, possibly with the rose still in the shovel, pop it into the new hole and backfill around the rose with the excess dirt, creating a little trench/moat around it. Go & fill the moat up with water (hose water should be OK, but if you have access to non-city water, that's much more preferred IMO. If you don't have access to non-hose / city water, what you can do is, a few days beforehand, fill a 5gal bucket w/water & put it out in the sun. The heat/sun will dissipate the chlorine / chloramine within 24 hours. Heavier metals such as copper / lead won't dissipate, but there's not a heck of a lot you can do w/o a RO system.), watching the water soak in. This will tell you were there was air pockets in the hole (the water will cause the dirt to collapse in those "caves", then you can fill in the holes created. Plus you can watch how fast / slow the water drains. You want it to drain at a moderate pace. Too fast means too much sand. Too slow = clay. Doesn't drain = rock. Give the rose a minimum of a gal of water.. try not to give more than 5gals as you don't wanna drown the poor thing. If you wanna add some kind of booster, ok. Personal choice. Sometimes I will, sometimes I won't (depends on how lazy I am to go into the garage to get some root stimulator). Me personally, I then put mulch around the base of the rose. This protects from the heat / sun and keeps moisture in the soil, plus, with my horrific soil, helps naturally amend it from clay crap into worm-filled dirt. But, again, this is personal choice. Then leave the rose alone. As mentioned before, do NOT be surprised or alarmed if the rose drops all it's leaves. Perfectly normal. I transplanted a 3 year old climber from next to my house where it got NO sun into an area that gets full sun for about 6 hours a day. Every leaf fell off & I thought for sure I killed it. I pruned it hard (cut off about 6-7' of the canes, leaving 3' canes) and left it alone, watering about once a week. Within about 2 weeks had full sets of leaves and about a month, actually got blooms! And that was surprising because this particular rose is an early spring bloomer and this was in the middle of July that she bloomed! You should also prune a little. This encourages new growth. Just a little.. not a buzz cut. Me personally, I'd cut off about 1/3 of the length of the canes and go from there.

Now that I've rambled on & on, I hope that some of this might be useful for your situation. And please, never be afraid to ask questions! The experts here are wonderful people and are always willing to help newbies like myself with growing pains!

Thank you very much Lyn and skiekitty..(i don't remember if your name is Toni, sorry) i am very comfortable asking questions here because everybody is so kind and patient in explaining things to me.. All i have to do is reread until i am sure i didn't miss anything.. Anyway, i think tomorrow will be a great day for me because my mom inlaw is coming over with some plants and i know her for just touching something and it will bloom or bear fruits and vegetables.. This is the reason why i thought planting was just dig a hole, plant and water.. So i will have her do a one on one, actual tutorial with me.. Again, thanks everyone!! you guys are awesome!!

Liza ~ How is your Iceberg rose doing now?

RoseBlush1 said: The second is that if you did not dead head the rose and allowed it to form hips, the plant "thinks" it has completed its primary function of continuing the species and has set seed and doesn't need to bloom any more. If you see any rose hips on your rose, I think you should just nip them off and not allow them to ripen and this sends a signal to the plant that it has to start and produce blooms to attract the pollenators to help fertilize the bloom so that the plant can set seed and complete the plant cycle. That is why we dead head the roses.

Note this isn't universal. May be more of an issue for those in lower zones but I'm in the equivalent of z10b or z11 (Sydney Australia) and many roses here don't slow down despite the lack of dead heading (i don't dead head, seeds for growing) Granted I don't grow many HT's so the reputation may stem from those as they do slow down for me compared with minis, floribundas.

@Protoavis

This was an old thread, but I think the information is valid. I started my rose life in zone 10, so I know what you are experiencing in your warmer zone. It sure is different ...

In the same thread I wrote:

RoseBlush1 said:The plant cycle is for the rose to create a bloom to attract pollenators to fertilize the bloom so that it can set seed and continue the species. When we are dead heading, taking off the spent blooms, we are interrupting that plant cycle because we are not allowing the rose to set seed and form hips. In a sense, the rose "knows" it has not performed its function of continuing the species, so it starts over and puts out more blooms to get pollenated. That's how we get repeat bloom on our roses. Of course, this is only true for those roses that are genetically programmed to bloom more than once in the season.

Some roses will continue to bloom a lot even though they have not been dead headed and have formed seeds, but for the purposes of this thread, I am ignoring those roses Most roses, once they have set seed kind of tell themselves they've done their job and stop blooming.

In your climate, you stop dead heading your rose some time in October to allow the plant to complete its normal plant cycle and rest during the winter. The rose will set seed and form hips where you have not removed the spent blooms. On some roses, those hips are simply beautiful and they are the fruit of the plant.

Allowing the plant to complete its normal plant cycle helps create stronger roses, in most cases. As always, it depends on the rose.

Oh, I forgot to tell you ... when I lived in San Diego, I volunteered at Tiny Petals, the nursery founded by Dee Bennett, and got a lot of my roses from that nursery. I was growing a LOT of miniature roses and few HTs down south.

I did experiment with not dead heading the roses and allowing them to bloom through our mild winters and found that the roses were not as productive as they were, if I allowed them to rest.

Your experience may be very different because you are growing different roses.

Really, not many rules regarding deadheading.

Some roses, such as the triploid hybrid musk roses are infertile and just keep blooming and blooming because they cannot form seeds. Some roses, such as rugosas seem to be programmed to continue blooming even as seeds form. Gallicas don't repeat. Period. Ditto multifloras. Most Damasks don't either. Several China roses repeat quite convincingly.

Many floribundas, I would guess, have been selected for quick repeat flowering cycles. And with the number of blossoms a good floribunda can produce it would be silly to require deadheading.

I'm betting that if a diligent researcher were to google all the rose patent applications she would find some mention of roses that repeat willingly without deadheading as a claim in a patent application for a floribunda or a hybrid tea rose. I would guess, too, that it's probably a few decades back (maybe as early as the sixties). If the guess is right then we would expect to have quite a few roses that repeat without deadheading. If this claim were absent from all rose patents, then it would prove that deadheading never actually gets you very much in terms of repeat flower production.

I deadhead informally because it neatens up the plant a little to do so. At least on some plants. But I, too, grow very few hybrid tea roses.

Steve812 said:Really, not many rules regarding deadheading.

You are absolutely right, Steve. Some roses will stop blooming once they have produced flowers and formed hips, but if you deadhead them, they keep on producing blooms. Other roses just keep on blooming whether or not you deadhead them. As usual, it depends on the rose.

evelyninthegarden said:Liza ~ How is your Iceberg rose doing now?

Evelyn, @evelyninthegarden, she has not posted back here since this 2013 thread.
You can check on a member's profile for their individual posts and it says 46 months ago.

Sometimes people respond to tree mails after long absences from the site (speaking from first hand experience.)

Calif_Sue said:

Evelyn, @evelyninthegarden, she has not posted back here since this 2013 thread.
You can check on a member's profile for their individual posts and it says 46 months ago.

Thank you, Sue.
@Calif_Sue