Daylilies forum: Oddities

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(Zone 5a)
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cats1
Aug 3, 2013 7:37 AM CST
I've seen other pics of blooms that split the color down the center of the petals, but didn't think I'd ever see it in my own yard. -- This morning I got up to this bloom on Electric City Spring Fling.




This is the second year I've gotten blooms on this plant, and the first time I've seen the color split... Wish they could make this a dominant trait!

Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Aug 3, 2013 7:58 AM CST
Very interesting. I've seen the ones that have what I've heard called "broken color" but yours is different than any I've seen with that yellow
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Aug 3, 2013 8:35 AM CST
Very neat looking!!!
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Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
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philljm
Aug 3, 2013 8:40 AM CST
oh, I like it! Thanks for posting the picture ~Jan
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
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chalyse
Aug 3, 2013 12:52 PM CST
The other split cultivar I've seen, Broken Promise, produced a very nice striped offspring. Hope you don't mind, I nominated your photo for upload to the database, as hybridizers may want it to be searchable in order to see if that cultivar tends to produce more than just the one broken bloom, and/or any striped offspring. Any chance you dabbed pollen with it? Drooling
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Aug 3, 2013 12:55 PM CST
Really interesting! I've had this happen on tulips before, where one half was red and the other half was white, but I've never seen it on another flower!
Natalie
(Zone 5a)
Cat Lover Daylilies Bee Lover Annuals
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cats1
Aug 3, 2013 2:10 PM CST
Chalyse ~ I'm not a hybridizer, so haven't worked with the pollen. And I thought about adding it to the database, but I'm pretty sure it's a fluke. -- I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it from here on out though and see if it happens again. :)

Natalie ~ That's interesting about the tulips. I was hoping to find out if there were other flowers out there that were doing this.

Tink ~ I'm pretty sure the other pic I saw of split color (broken color?) dls was on the side of the LA page (the side where people can turn in pics of their plants), and I had it in my head the petals were half red and half yellow.

~And I'm glad you guys like it! I think it was outside for maybe 20 minutes after I saw it this morning and then I brought it in the house and set it up in a shot glass on the kitchen table.
(Zone 5a)
Cat Lover Daylilies Bee Lover Annuals
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cats1
Aug 3, 2013 3:09 PM CST
I'm sorry guys... I couldn't resist taking a couple more pics. It'll probably be the only time I have something like this in the yard! :)

Thumb of 2013-08-03/cats1/889fbd

Thumb of 2013-08-03/cats1/7437e3


caitlinsgarden
Aug 3, 2013 4:34 PM CST
I think there is a cultivar by a hybridizer ( forget the name, something with A and z in it) that has a split personality like this. It was in the AHS journal awhile back.
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Natalie
Aug 3, 2013 7:25 PM CST
cats1, too bad you aren't a hybridizer. You could have tried out some of that pollen to see if it's passed on to a baby or two. I sure hope you get more of these though. It's really great!
Natalie
Name: Kim
iowa (Zone 5a)
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kimmer
Aug 3, 2013 7:41 PM CST
Love the picture of your cat! Kim
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Aug 4, 2013 4:31 AM CST
Very interesting.
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
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daylily
Aug 4, 2013 5:19 AM CST
In over 20 years growing daylilies, I have only seen this happen one time in my garden. You are lucky that you saw it! I have never seen an explanation.

edited to add... now that I have my Mac on and not posting from the ipad, I can add a photo. It was a Warrell seedling.


Thumb of 2013-08-04/daylily/e3ece9

[Last edited by daylily - Aug 4, 2013 8:33 AM (+)]
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Name: Peggy
Missouri (Zone 6a)
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hazeleyes
Aug 4, 2013 8:41 AM CST
Reminds me of chimera.
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(Zone 5a)
Cat Lover Daylilies Bee Lover Annuals
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cats1
Aug 4, 2013 8:51 AM CST
Natalie ~ Wouldn't the pollen be the same for all the flowers on a plant, or would the pollen from this flower have had a better chance of producing more like it? If so I wish I could have tried to save some of it. Glare

Julie ~ That's neat! I was hoping to see other pics and that one is gorgeous. Smiling

Hazeleyes ~ Now if we could just make the mutant part of the plant dominant!!

Kimmer ~ I have a lot of trouble taking pics of the cats while they're facing me (it causes their eyes to shine)... it must be a digital camera thing because I don't remember it being too bad with my old camera. Anyway Haley was looking out the window and I didn't think I could mess that one up... ~~ And you've got a cute pic of your kitty too. Seeing people's pets is almost as good as looking at their dls... It's all good!
[Last edited by cats1 - Aug 4, 2013 8:52 AM (+)]
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Natalie
Aug 4, 2013 10:06 AM CST
Cool flower Juli! Thanks for the picture!

cats1, I guess it would be the same genetics in each flower, so maybe it's worth a try! Even if you don't want to hybridize yourself, maybe you can find someone that would be interested in using the pollen. Not sure if the pollen from this bloom would be any different. Someone smarter would have to help with that one.

I agree on the pet pictures!
Natalie
(Zone 5a)
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cats1
Aug 4, 2013 10:29 AM CST
Natalie ~ That's good to know. Maybe someday I'll give it a shot. :)
Name: Doris&David Bishop
Cartersville, Ga. (Zone 7b)
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Casshigh
Aug 4, 2013 5:10 PM CST
My uneducated guess is that it is a chimera. I've seen similar on a bloom, but never again. From what I've read, the genetics of a bloom are just the same as the genetics on all of the other blooms on that cultivar. It doesn't increase your chances of getting a double, polymerous, or other "freak" bloom from that pollen because the bloom that day was weird. I WISH that some of these "different" blooms would help our chances of coming up with something very special. That won't stop us from trying, eh Spunky, Lyle, Tink, Cindy, et. al.?
David
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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Aug 7, 2013 12:19 PM CST
I'm sorry to say this post will be somewhat wishy-washy - no definite answers.

I'm going to call the section of the flowers with a very different colour from the rest of the flower a sector.

A flower may have a sector because of a genetic difference or it may have a sector because of a non-genetic or environmental difference.

As one example of a possible environmental difference, sometimes a flower does not open properly and part of a petal is stuck in a sepal all day. Sometimes, if one then pulls the petal out of the sepal one sees a sector of darker colour versus the rest of the petal's colour. The colour in the rest of the petal was affected (perhaps somewhat 'bleached') by sunlight. The part of the petal that was enclosed in the sepal did not experience as much sunlight (it was shaded) and kept its colour. Something similar can be seen if one picks a bud the night before that it is about to open and lets it open in complete darkness and then looks at it. Or if one places the unopened bud in the refrigerator and lets it open. The petal colours will not be the same as those on a flower in the garden after the sun has risen [there won't be any sectors, the flower will not be the same colour indoors [without light or in the cool and without light] as outdoors in sunlight.

A genetic difference would create a genetic chimera. Genetic differences are very rare, say one in a million. However, if we have a genetic difference in a flower then that flower will not necessarily breed exactly the same as the other flowers on the plant. That depends on where the sector occurs, how large it is and in which tissue of the flower it is.

Let's assume that the sector in 'Electric City Spring Fling' is genetic (it may not be). It is large and affects one petal and one sepal. That means whatever happened did so very early in the development of the flower. In a daylily flower there are six stamens with pollen; three are 'attached' to sepals and three are 'attached' to petals. There will be one stamen attached to the sectored petal and one stamen attached to the sectored sepal. It is likely that if there was some pigment on the stalk (filament) of those stamens that we would see a sector on the stalks on the same side (half) as on the petal or sepal. It would be likely that the sectors extended into the part of the stamens where pollen is made (anther).

So now we could reasonably safely assume that there was genetic change in the anther. But we are not finished yet. There are basically three layers of tissues in the flower parts. An upper layer (epidermal), middle layer (mesophyll) and bottom layer (epidermal) similar to the upper layer. In many plant species pollen develops only from the middle layer. But in daylilies some pollen also develops from the upper and/or lower layers. The estimate of how much pollen develops from those locations varies from about 1/7th to about 3/10ths. That will probably be different for every flower and every anther.

We would need to know whether the sectors are in the upper layer, the middle layer or the lower layer or some combinations of all these. The pigment/colour that is is missing is only normally present in the upper and lower layers so we can tell that the sector is present in the upper layer. If it is also present in the lower layer then it is probably also present (we assume) in the middle layer (even though the middle layer never produces the pigment). If the sector is present in all three layers and involves half the petal, and half the anther then half the pollen in that anther will carry the genetic difference (that is, that pollen will have lost the ability to produce the pigment). If the sector is not present in the middle layer then 1/2 X 1/7 or 1/14th of the pollen to 1/2 X 3/10 or 3/20ths of the pollen will carry the genetic difference (or in this case lost the ability to make the pigment). A geneticist would produce as many hundreds of seedlings as possible from the two sectored anthers looking for that new mutation. Or using 21st century methods, pieces of the sector would be tissue cultured to grow whole new plants showing the genetic change.
Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Aug 7, 2013 2:48 PM (+)]
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
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Natalie
Aug 7, 2013 12:32 PM CST
admmad, you have once again come to our rescue! You explain things that are very complicated to many of us, yet you make them so easy to understand! Thank you for all the time you have taken to explain so many complicated things, so that they can sink in! Group hug Group hug Group hug I sure would have loved it if you had been my science teacher! I would have gotten so much more out of the class.
Natalie

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