Roses forum: Suggestions for newbie ?

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Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
Aug 14, 2013 4:14 PM CST
I am the gardener of the family, but roses have not been my more successful venture. My husband has surprisingly offered to take them on, and I am more than happy to pass the baton. Here is what I currently have in my row of roses: Pink Fairy, Iceberg, Spanish Sun, Chicago Peace, 2 NOID rescue tea roses that have reverted to their root stock. These are located along a 3-board fence running N-S in full sun, with the prevailing NW wind somewhat blocked by the house, but otherwise having good air circulation. Lawn on west side of the rose bed, pasture on the other. Planted about 3' apart center to center. Strawberries at their feet. I plan to yard out the reverted tea roses, and would like to present my husband with 2-3 new roses when I turn over the reins to him so he can have his own babies. I am in the Pacific NW, so all of the rose problems are an issue - black spot, mildew, and aphids in particular. I would like my husband to have good success with his roses. Any suggestions for easy-care, highly-resistant, locally-available varieties? I like the floribundas but am not wed to them. I have access to lots of well supplied nurseries. I've always been an organic gardener and will encourage my husband to be as well, but I am well aware of his stash of bug poison in the barn. This is the rose bed in spring and you can see there is room for a couple more to tie in with the driveway/shrub border if he chooses to expand. Thanks for any insight and suggestions.

Thumb of 2013-08-14/Bonehead/0f93a4

I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Aug 14, 2013 5:16 PM CST
What a wonderful fence for climbing roses! - But what is in the pasture that may eat them?
Porkpal
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Aug 14, 2013 5:42 PM CST
Just grasshoppers. We no longer run any animals in our pastures, and have torn down much of the cross fencing. The perimeter fence is all still intact but the gates are either off the hinges or propped open. We mow the fields about twice per year to keep the Canadian thistle under control, but otherwise let the pasture grass grow. I especially like when it goes to seed, so pretty in the wind.

I forgot, I do also have two Cecile Brunner climbers on the driveway fence (5 strand barb) that runs perpendicular to this fence. I babysat the mother plant twice when my sister-in-law was between homes and ended up with a rooting each time. She originally brought a piece of it from her childhood home in Oregon. I love when a plant has a history.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Andi
Pocono Mountains, PA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
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GardenQuilts
Aug 14, 2013 6:25 PM CST
I got a good book at my new favorite book store. It is called "Growing Roses Organically' by Barbara Wilde published by Rodale press. Rodale has an 800 number posted (800) 848 -4735 and a website on organic gardening [url=www.organicgardening.com]www.organicgardening.com[/url].

Rodale is in PA, but the author wrote the book from her home in Paris. It has lots of great information and charts and everything. She has information on antique and modern roses, especially Kordes roses.


[Last edited by GardenQuilts - Aug 14, 2013 6:28 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Aug 14, 2013 7:05 PM CST

Moderator

Hi, Deb. What a great bed! I love the use of strawberries as a ground cover between the roses.

The only roses in my garden that never get black spot are Playboy and Cinco de Mayo. Also, Ping Lim's roses don't get black spot here, but the only one you're likely to find locally is Rainbow Sorbet.

Rose (Rosa 'Playboy')

Rose (Rosa 'Cinco de Mayo')

Rose (Rosa 'Rainbow Sorbet')

Any Kordes rose also does better in my climate and will stay relatively free of black spot.

There are no mildew problems here, so I can't address that part of your question.

Aphids are easy to control without chemicals. Just knock them off the plant with a spray of water from your garden hose. They're incapable of climbing back up. If there aren't too many, you can also just run your fingers up the stem and bud and squash them.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Skiekitty
Aug 15, 2013 12:45 AM CST
I can't help you because I extremely rarely get black spot due to my xeric climate. I can give you a ton if suggestions as to what would survive in colder environments but I don't think you need that as most of the PNW is zone 7 & higher.

But what a beautiful area!!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 15, 2013 2:09 AM CST
Actually, it is almost impossible for anyone who does not live locally to you to advise you about disease resistance to black spot in your area. With the advances of horticultural sciences in the last few decades, it has been learned that there are 15 races of black spot in the world. Five of them are found in the United States. The black spot that appears in my garden may not be the black spot you find in your garden. For me to suggest a rose that his been clean for me, may lead you to plant a rose disaster. Not only are there different strains of bs, but the fungus is constantly mutating ... as is the rose. Roses generally have one gene that impacts its ability to resist bs. This is called vertical resistance by the scientists mentioned above. That gene can mutate and the rose will lose its bs resistance. Ooops ...

Bill Radler's success with the Knock Out roses came from intensive study and experimenting with inoculating the soils and roses with all five strains of bs found in the US. The seedlings he brought forward, were those that showed incredible resistance to bs. This is is call horizontal resistance in that they found the there were several genes in theses roses that resisted bs. But even Knock Outs have been shown to be bs prone in some areas of the country.

In my personal experience, I am growing roses that have a reputation for being bs messes that are generally clean for me in my garden and my climate. Another rose friend growing the same rose from the same original source in another state says her rose defoliates each spring. How could I possibly recommend a rose to you ? It doesn't matter how long I've grown roses or how many different roses I have grown over the past few decades, my climate and the bs that is active here is not the same as yours.

"Playboy' is one of those bs disasters in southern California, yet in Zuzu's garden it is a clean rose .... different strains of bs are active in different parts of the country. The marketing hype that a rose is disease resistant always makes me wonder who wrote the copy. It certainly wasn't someone who is familiar with the new information about this fungal disease.

Your fence looks like the perfect spot to plant many of what we call ogrs (old garden roses). These are the roses that have certainly passed the test of time and are the survivors of thousands of roses that were introduced and found to be poor garden roses due to poor disease resistance. To find the roses that are successful in your area of the country and in your climate, I suggest you contact the Heritage Rose Group that is active in your area. (From I have read, they have some great people.) Again, check locally. The ogrs that grow well in Southern California, may not be the best roses for you in your part of the country.

Yes, I like the floribundas, too. Some work just fine here and some are gone because they were not the right rose for this garden.

Young roses are more prone to disease as they have not built up their immunity systems ... just like young children. Often it take a rose three to four years to reach sufficient maturity to shrug off disease. So many people give up on these roses far too soon and the roses never have the chance to become the magnificent plants they can be because while they were young, they were more susceptible to disease.

Yes, it's true, there are roses that put up a sign that says welcome to any and all rose diseases known to roses. Smiling Over time, these roses disappear from the market.

Of course, there are other variables that can impact a rose's disease resistance.

Good luck with your new adventure.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Aug 15, 2013 8:04 AM CST
Thanks for all the info. Perhaps I will post more specifically on my PNW forum to see what has been successful for folks in my particular region. I know a couple of regulars grow roses. And, I'll also check into a local rose group. All good suggestions, and interesting to learn about the different strains of bs.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Aug 15, 2013 11:23 AM CST
Most of us that have been growing roses most of our lives, don't know the new information about black spot. I picked up most of the information I posted above from the Rose Hybridizers Phorum because the focus has been to breed for disease resistant roses for a long time and these are the folks that are talking about the roses diseases they are fighting to bring us better roses.

The information is not secret, but those selling roses do not share this kind of information. The roses that have been introduced in the last several decades have been tested and trialed before introduction, but most of them were not tested in multiple sites. It can easily take ten or more years before a seedling that has been chosen to be tested to comes to market even with the limited testing.

The movement towards testing roses to be "earthkind", meaning that they are good performers without chemical interference, is truly a step forward, but the information is skewed because they don't test the roses in enough different parts of the country to account for the different strains of diseases.

This is why checking with those who grow roses in your own area and climate is truly the best way to find roses that will do well for you.

The only rose that I know of that has been consistently clean for many climates is Kim Rupert's rose, 'Lynnie', but even this rose will show bs in my garden when conditions are right.

The rose in my garden grows much taller and much wider than many gardens. Why ? I truly don't know. I don't treat it differently than any other rose in the garden. Is it right for your garden ? I don't know because I have never grown it in your climate.









Here's a link from HMF for the rose. If you check the garden listings, you will find that it is grown in several different kinds of climates.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.32678&tab=1

Another rose that has a fine reputation for growing well in many climates is Ralph Moore's 'Linda Campbell'

A photo of when it has been in the ground for two years


Thumb of 2013-08-15/RoseBlush1/09005b

Three years later ... no blooms because I had been disbudding the roses for rose curculio weevils ... but a larger plant because I enlarged the deer cage





A link to the HMF data page so that you can see that this rose is also grown in many climates.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.3827.0

I am not recommending the roses because I have a personal reluctance to do that, but, rather showing you how you can use HMF to research a rose.

Smiles,
Lyn

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Charter ATP Member Irises Salvias Xeriscape Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Colorado Enjoys or suffers cold winters Cat Lover
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Skiekitty
Aug 15, 2013 12:15 PM CST
One rose I'm going to highly suggest to STAY AWAY FROM is Our Lady de Guadalupe. I don't know about the climbing variety, but I know that OLdG, even in my extremely dry climate, does get blackspot SOOO easily! Last year was the first year she wasn't pretty much nekkid from losing all her lower leaves to BS. This year, I haven't seen much yellowing on her, but when I do see a leaf, I pluck it immediately. That's just based on my own personal experience here. Shrug! Shrug! Shrug! I wish I could be more help to suggest roses, but what works for me here may be a disaster for you. Thumbs down I tip my hat to you.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/TweetsnTreats
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Aug 15, 2013 1:02 PM CST
Ah, yes, but now we know that you may have a different species of black spot than Bonehead.
Porkpal

roseseek
Aug 15, 2013 10:02 PM CST
You wrote you have strawberries under the roses? If they're edible types, PLEASE whip your husband into submission NOT to use any pesticides to control the aphids! All you need is for something to get away from you and the berries begin giving you things you definitely do NOT want. Perhaps if you convinced him those berries were going to be included in every meal of his you could possibly stuff them, he might be less prone to the bug spray?
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Aug 16, 2013 8:16 AM CST
Good point re the berries. I thought what may work is for me to mix up some non-toxic stuff and label it for his use. Then slowly bring him around to mixing his own concoctions. If he mixes it, it then becomes 'his' secret weapon. So (not being a rose person), what have you found useful for fighting off any of the rose problems? I've noted down:

2 aspirin in 1 Q water
1 C chopped chamomile in 1 Q water
2 t baking soda, 1 t Murphys in 1 Q water
Milk + water

Any other tried-and-true potions?

P.S. I have posted on the PNW forum asking for specific cultivars that others have found successful, and am getting good responses. I plan to just go armed with a list next spring (husband's birthday is April and I thought that would make a good gift). There is reportedly a good rose nursery close by called Antique Rose Farm which I've never been to and I'm sure they will have good advice as well for what might be successful in my micro-climate.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.

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