Perennials forum: Gaillardia 'Oranges & Lemons' versus 'Arizona Apricot' - help needed in IDing

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Polymerous
Aug 24, 2013 6:30 PM CST
Okay, I admit to stupidity, and I'm going to need some help.

Last year I bought some 1 gallon Gaillardia. They (inadvertently) got left out in the 1 gallon pots, and this spring I had one survivor. (No, I do not explicitly recall what the cultivar was.)

The pot hung around (getting watered) until I finally decided that it liked the spot where it was (right on the edge of the patio) - it just needed to be in the ground. And it needed a companion!

As things happen, last week when I was at the Full Moon sale my favorite nursery was running, I snagged the last pot of what I recall was Galliardia 'Oranges & Lemons'. (Unfortunately the plant was lumped in as one of the "perennials" on the receipt. I have had 'Oranges & Lemons' in the past and liked it, and thought that that was what the surviving plant from last year was.)

Today was planting day, for which I had some help. I removed the label from one or the other pot (I forget which) of Gaillardia, thinking that both of them were 'Oranges & Lemons'. The ground got dug up, and both plants planted (by my help) at the edge of the patio, where they look fabulous.

But.

After the plants were in the ground, and I went to fertilize and water them in, I noticed that the two plants (both of which I thought were 'Oranges & Lemons') are different.

Uh-oh.

One has green foliage, and the yellow on the petal tips is a bit larger than on the other plant. The other has blue-green foliage, and the yellow on the petals covers a smaller area at the tips. Apart from the amount of yellow, the color on the flowers is very similar. (The latter plant had an 'Arizona Apricot' label stuck into the soil nearby, placed by my helper (who may have stuck it by the wrong plant).)

I went pawing through some labels which I had plucked from various pots (of things dead or alive) about ten minutes earlier, and I did find a label for 'Oranges & Lemons'. So... it appears that that plant did come into this garden (either last year or last week), as well as the 'Arizona Apricot'.

From my online research, both Monrovia and Missouri Botanical gardens state that 'Oranges & Lemons' has blue-green foliage. (Yet perennials.com says that the foliage is "light green"!) All America Selections states that 'Arizona Apricot' (a seed strain and 2011 AAA Flower Award Winner) has green foliage.

Various pictures that I have seen online seem to suggest that the flower with the smaller amount of yellow matches 'Oranges & Lemons'. (It is unclear re the blooms of 'Arizona Apricot', and being a seed strain, I would expect some variability anyway.)

I suppose that I could try to find another plant (of either) at the other local nurseries, though I doubt that I would have much success. 'Oranges & Lemons' is said to be sterile, so I suppose I could also try to see which seeds (would 'Oranges & Lemons' even make seeds?) germinate. (That's not really a project that I want to take on, though.)

What I am basically asking for, from those who may have grown one or the other plant, is help/confirmation and a sanity check as to which plant is which (as the flowers are similar in color). Is the one with the blue-green foliage 'Oranges & Lemons'?

Thanks for any help. Pictures follow.

cropped picture taken last week of the new plant, along with other nursery sale booty (the picture is not as helpful as I had hoped, but I think the foliage maybe looks blue-green)
Thumb of 2013-08-25/Polymerous/1fd91d

picture of both the newly planted Gaillardia
Thumb of 2013-08-25/Polymerous/1e7bc7

picture of the bloom and foliage of the plant on the left (maybe 'Arizona Apricot'?)

Thumb of 2013-08-25/Polymerous/aae69e

picture of the bloom and foliage of the plant on the right (maybe 'Oranges & Lemons'?)
Thumb of 2013-08-25/Polymerous/15df28

The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Betty
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daylilydreams
Aug 24, 2013 7:02 PM CST
Here is oranges and lemons on bluestone perennials website it looks like the second picture. http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/alphabetical/G?id=yYasU4R...
If you want to be happy for a lifetime plant a garden!
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Betty MN Zone4 AHS member

South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Aug 24, 2013 9:26 PM CST
Thanks for your response. Looking at other online pictures of 'Oranges & Lemons', and now the one on the link that you sent, that's what I thought - that the last picture (the right hand plant) is a match. The nursery at your link describes the seed heads as being "unique" and "chartreuse". There are seed heads in my first picture, but I'm not sure that I would call that color "chartreuse". (If it is, it is on the light side.)

I had the brilliant idea of sanity checking the pots from today's planting (which were fortunately few and all dumped into one place). One pot *was* labeled "Gaillardia 'Oranges & Lemons'", and it was a brown pot. (The uncropped first picture (barely) shows a brown pot, and as i recall the other plant was in an unlabeled black or blue pot (I found one of each in the pot pile).) I bought no other Gaillardia this season, so at least I can be sure of the identity of these two plants (one from the labeled pot, and one from the plastic plant label). I just need to nail down which is which, but at least it sounds like you are in agreement as to my guess which is which. I tip my hat to you.

I think maybe I will let each make at least one seed head, and see what color they are. If the seed head on 'Oranges & Lemons' really is so unique (or at least, relatively more chartreuse), maybe that will nail it.
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Aug 25, 2013 7:12 PM CST

Moderator

My 'Apricot' looks like the bottom photo. I think this is a good sign that 'Apricot' is a good buy. I just got a packet for 99 cents yesterday. To me it is just as nice as 'Oranges and Lemons.'
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
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virginiarose
Aug 26, 2013 4:55 AM CST
My Oranges and Lemons looks like the bottom photo. Do you think they sent me the wrong plant? Hummm. I do like the Arizona Apricot better, from pics I've seen it clumps better. I grew some from seed the year before last but they froze after sprouting too early. Maybe I will try again. Thumbs up
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Aug 26, 2013 9:45 AM CST
I agree that the 'Arizona Apricot' is nice (presuming that that is what last year's surviving plant is...). Realizing that I wanted to plant it out, but needed another one (or two), made me go looking for Gaillardia at the sale in the first place. But I'm a bit obsessive about knowing what my plants are, and the long term plan now is to identify these two, and move them such that the plants are separate.

Only the one has the blue-green foliage (though I admit, it is subtle). Only 'Oranges & Lemons' has been described (on some sites) as having blue-green foliage. Only 'Oranges & Lemons' is an asexually propagated cultivar, so (unlike with seed strains, as 'Arizona Apricot' is) another plant should be virtually the same, wrt plant habit and flower and foliage color.

Because of the foliage color, I am leaning towards thinking the one on the right is the 'Oranges & Lemons'. I guess that I'm going to have to acquire another (one, or two) 'Oranges & Lemons' plant(s) from somewhere, and then compare the foliage and flower. Tomorrow is errand running day; I'm hoping that I can call around to the other nurseries and find at least one other 'Oranges & Lemons'. If not, I suppose there is always mail order... (though I hate to pay the same price for a smaller plant, PLUS also have to pay shipping fees).
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
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virginiarose
Aug 26, 2013 1:04 PM CST
http://www.santarosagardens.com/Gaillardia-Oranges-and-Lemon...


Santa Rosa has them fairly cheap and shipping is very reasonable. I am thinking there might be a fall sale but they are shipping these now.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Aug 26, 2013 3:22 PM CST
Today I phoned the 3 other nurseries that I visit here. Two of them did not have 'Oranges & Lemons'; the third I kept redialing (for over 20 minutes) because of a busy line, but never got a pickup. So I decided to just do an online order.

Not realizing that I already had the bluestoneperennials link up on my very crowded tab bar, I ordered 2 of the 'Oranges & Lemons' from Santa Rosa. (Well, it may be good to check out a new online nursery, and the Santa Rosa plants of that cultivar were certainly cheaper than those from bluestoneperennials. Thanks for the link. I tip my hat to you. ) I also ordered one of a Heuchera 'Marvelous Marble'. (After I completed the order, I went back to check on something, and discovered that they also carry 'Arizona Apricot'. Oh well! I should be able to confirm the ID from just the incoming 'Oranges & Lemons'.)

I will report back on the findings.... and in the meantime and for the future... let this be a lesson (to me, and to all of us):

Keep the label with the plant, all the way into the ground!
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 26, 2013 4:50 PM CST
Well, thank you I am glad you like Santa Rosa they have reasonable shipping and good sales. But I found two on Romance Gardens that are in bigger pots (quart) and are cheaper!! I like to order from them in the late fall if I need anything Iast minute, like coneflowers not available else where. I know they have a good root system and will likely make it through the winter. I got a couple last month and they were the same price as the 4 inch pots and the shipping was around 10.00 after the discount taken at checkout.
http://www.romencegardens.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.pl...
Oh, Marvelous Marble is beautiful, I think I already have that one, I got a few last year and this year but I try to buy the kind with villosa backgrounds they have more heat and humidity tolerance.

Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Aug 27, 2013 7:15 AM CST
Romence Gardens...bigger pots...cheaper... *groan*

Ok, I'll add that to the nursery list. (Thanks, I think....) But since I already ordered the two plants from Santa Rosa, I guess I am stuck with them.

(Have you found Romence Gardens to be reliable in the sense of not mixing up varieties? I don't suppose it would hurt to go check that link out....or would it? Rolling on the floor laughing )

...

Edited to add: Just checked out Romence... they have the 'Arizona Apricot' but not the 'Oranges & Lemons'. I think I will dig out the 'Arizona Apricot' that I have, and put it elsewhere in the garden, and backfill (with some more digging) with the two smaller incoming 'Oranges & Lemons'; that way I will have one nice 3-plant group next to the patio. When 'Arizona Apricot' gets planted (it will probably overwinter in a pot again, sigh) I can come back online and order companions for it then.
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
[Last edited by Polymerous - Aug 27, 2013 7:30 AM (+)]
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Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
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clintbrown
Aug 27, 2013 4:19 PM CST

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You could get 'Apricot' seeds and winter sow. They are among the easiest plants from seeds.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 27, 2013 9:37 PM CST
Polymerous said:Romence Gardens...bigger pots...cheaper... *groan*

Ok, I'll add that to the nursery list. (Thanks, I think....) But since I already ordered the two plants from Santa Rosa, I guess I am stuck with them.

(Have you found Romence Gardens to be reliable in the sense of not mixing up varieties? I don't suppose it would hurt to go check that link out....or would it? Rolling on the floor laughing )

...

Edited to add: Just checked out Romence... they have the 'Arizona Apricot' but not the 'Oranges & Lemons'. I think I will dig out the 'Arizona Apricot' that I have, and put it elsewhere in the garden, and backfill (with some more digging) with the two smaller incoming 'Oranges & Lemons'; that way I will have one nice 3-plant group next to the patio. When 'Arizona Apricot' gets planted (it will probably overwinter in a pot again, sigh) I can come back online and order companions for it then.

Thumbs up
You did good, Romance Gardens does not have the Oranges and Lemons just Arizona Apricot and the Redish one, I forgot the name but they are short and I like that. I had O&L last year and they were floppy.
I have read good reviews on Watchdog about RG, are you familiar with Watchdog? I like looking around and you can add stuff to your favorites by clicking on the heart.
Anyway you should have time to get some good roots going on O&L since you already ordered them. I just blew my budget out of the water because I ordered 26 more daylilies, Maryott's with the darn BOGO's. I love it though!
Here are my Coneflowers from Romance. Thumbs up

Thumb of 2013-08-28/virginiarose/2487b3

Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Aug 27, 2013 9:56 PM CST
Funny you should mention Bill Maryott; my package from him arrived today...

...and somehow I'm going to have to find room for those plants, with and among all the other bareroot daylilies soaking in my patio area. Whistling

The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 28, 2013 6:24 AM CST
I still have not planted all the stuff I got in spring and here I am ordering daylilies. I got an email from Bluestone that a plant on back order has been shipped. I think it was Carolina Moonlight, I got more stuff in a shopping cart waiting for the sale.
They (Bluestone) have a lot of Gaillardia, including Oranges and Lemons, but they are more expensive and they come in the coco pots, the pots have actually done well this year, I just had to water them more. But in the shade it's ok. In the fall they normally have a sale and these 8.00 plants will likely be 4 or $5.00. This is time of year I like to buy shrubs like Winter-berries because the 15.99 shrubs are 7.99.
I had Moxie last year and I love the flowers but it was tall and leggy, I think the short ones will work better for me. I got 'Goblin' in my shopping cart, just waiting for that end of season sale. I need more plants like I need a hole in my head.
Oh! What did you get from Bill?? I had 8 on the original order which was supposed to ship in June but I told him not to ship because it was too hot. Then I added a couple over the summer and got Huckelberry Yogurt as a weekly bonus, now I added 8 of the BOGO's, no real regrets I love all these and I WILL make room for them somewhere. LOL.
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
Aug 28, 2013 9:52 AM CST
Susan, and what did you get from Bill on the BOGO? I'm still waffling. And then there is Dee's iris sale for 2.50 each on Cubits.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 28, 2013 9:07 PM CST
Oh dear!! Do not tell me that, I have no room for Iris right now. I am going to redo my SI bed and the TB bed is jam packed, They did bloom good this past spring and I loved them all. Lots of great colors like a festival going on in there. Rolling on the floor laughing

Speaking of festivals, the daylilies are doing great and the BOGO's are wonderful, I looked up everything and I believe I got the best ones for the price.

ORANGE GROVE-BOGO
DIXIE HIGHWAY-BOGO
FIREWALL-BOGO
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN-BOGO
MOMENT IN THE SUN-BOGO
PRECIOUS CANDY-BOGO
WALTER KENNEDY-BOGO
MISSISSIPPI MEMORIES-BOGO
ROYAL GILDED MAJESTY-BOGO
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff
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PollyK
Aug 29, 2013 5:39 PM CST
Good choices!
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 29, 2013 6:55 PM CST
Thanks! Green Grin!
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Aug 29, 2013 7:09 PM CST
I am literally at the point of "if a daylily comes in, another has to go out", whether it be thrown away (some plants don't belong in anybody's garden, imho), given away, or a fan or two saved in a pot "just in case". ("In case" meaning that I might change my mind, or (more likely, and as an example), the daylily is not a great garden plant but there is some hybridizing potential, and I know that the plant will be difficult to reacquire.)

That being the case, I am somewhat limited (in the number of plants I will now pursue) and thus somewhat picky (wrt exactly what I am going to purchase).

All of that said... plants that I got from Bill this year (both purchased and bonus plants - and Bill is very generous with his bonus plants!):

DOUBLY HOT
BUSY BEING BLUE
SNOW CRYSTAL (ever in pursuit of the perfect near-white daylily for the Moon Garden, lol)
IMPRESSIONISTIC
CALMING EFFECT
APHRODISIAC
DARINGLY DIFFERENT
PLEATED PUMPKIN

To get the thread back on topic... my 'Oranges & Lemons' Gaillardia plants will ship from Santa Rosa gardens the week of September 16th. That means that the Gaillardia ID mystery will remain unconfirmed for a while; but on the other hand, that gives me time to attend to other garden chores (like what to do with all of those daylilies!).
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Aug 29, 2013 7:55 PM CST
I think we can figure this out if we consider the flowers and height. From what I have seen AA is shorter @ 12-15" and has multiple petals. Like a double row.



Then O&L is taller @ 24 " and has a single flower or row of petals.



Hope this helps, LMK Thumbs up
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood

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