A neighbor had a couple of Great Pyrenees guarding their chickens and rheas, which they did faithfully. When the birds were sold the dogs began to roam the neighborhood; they missed their job.

Oh my, I will talk to my son about training Thor and asking whether his parents were also LGD. He was not put with the goats until he was about 3-6 mo. old, I wonder if that makes a difference? He was in the house before that then they realized he wasn't a house dog and he should be with the goats. What if these are different goats? He started out with another breed and then decided to raise just Nubians so all the current goats are not ones he was raised with.

He doesn't go after the chickens or guineas though.

I wouldn't trust him. I just finished rescuing a neighbor's goats from a pack of dogs neglected by another neighbor. It takes a special type of dog to identify with the goat and not see it as prey.

Most LGDs handle breed differences well, they sometime have issues with species difference but can be trained to appreciate these differences. I know several folks who specialize in rehabbing these dogs when they come up for rescue. There is a big difference between a 3 month old pup and a 6 month old pup. If this dog was a house dog until he was 6 months, he certainly hasn't bonded with the animals. We consider the average window to be from 8 to 16 weeks give or take. This is why most LGD pups are born and raised with their dam out with the livestock. When they are sold they go from one group of livestock straight to another, usually with a pen out with the livestock and supervised time in the beginning to protect both. Ours get dumped out with the ewes or does who will discipline them while the pups are small enough for it to make an impression. We don't normally trust young dogs with babies because they can play them to death or cause serious injury.

I really didn't intend to hijack the thread when I asked if Dave had considered LGDs. They can be a very valuable asset to a farm.

I know, I was trying to steer it back on point but I very much appreciate the info, your's too, Porkpal. Right now they don't let him alone with the goats anymore.

So sorry to be late to this party - we've been gone over a week and just catching up. I'm a bit brain dead at the moment but love the chicken coop design and all the predator stories are so sad

I'll come back and read in detail when I'm a bit more awake.

Do you have any trouble with snakes eating your eggs? I know @Shoe has had some serious eggs issues with snakes this year.

I always lose a few eggs to snakes, but I'm happy to have them in the barn for rat control. Ironically I lost a few snakes to eggs too. When I was trying to get my hens to use their nest boxes after a barn remodel, I put ceramic eggs in the boxes. They gradually disappeared - I fear to snakes who certainly could not digest them. If you want the snakes to leave, get rid of the rodents.

We don't seem to have any losses to snakes out in the duck pen, I do have a couple ducks who insist on setting in the barn and my rat snakes occasionally will feast on their eggs. Usually you hear a duck really distressed and if you look, there will be a rat snake in her nest or nearby. They don't seem to take very many and I love them there for the mice and rats, so I call it a fair trade. And our guys are close to six feet.
Porkpal, one of the main uses for ceramic eggs is snake control here. They break inside the snake and the sharp edges kill the snake.
Our rat snakes can be grumpy, especially when you relocate them, this one was under a stump in our side yard. Evan put him in the barn.

That's a nice lookin' rat snake, rouxcrew. And yep, those are beneficial in my opinion. (and most folks would kill them mistaking them for copperheads; I'm happy ya'll know the difference)

Vic, I sure have had my troubles this past year with black snakes eating my eggs, even my baby bunny kits. Grrr. But still I've held my temper and just hauled them out of the coop or rabbit pens and carried them away. Still can't bring myself to kill a black snake, or rat snake, any more than I could kill a lady bug or praying mantis.

Dave, my coop was set up like yours years ago with 3 pens off each side. I know, I know, I should've had 4 sides but space/location didn't allow it. Unfortunately my coop is located in a woodsy area and I could never consider any of those sides a garden area. But I did rotate chickens for years until I started raising too many different breeds and had to keep them isolated from each other to preserve their blood lines...that was the demise of my rotational system and it allowed my "grazing areas" to become bare. Now that I am no longer keeping 100-200 chickens at a time I'm sure my various pens will grow up again.

Shoe (who thinks you'd benefit from at least one more outdoor area in your rotation)

I'm glad for this feedback, Shoe, and I did start out thinking of doing four pens instead of 3. The big issue for me is, how to design the fencing. Are you proposing that the design look the same as I put in the original post of this thread, except with an extra fence inside to make four pens instead of 3? Or would you recommend rethinking how the coop is oriented and have the pens on all sides?

My pig rotation consists of five areas. The central area, rather like yours, opens to the shed on one side, but the two flanking pens are divided in two with gates between them plus gates to the central area. Also they are much larger as befits pigs. The central pen and shed are always accessible and I just open and close gates to move everyone about. ( I'm sorry that I can't make my computer draw diagrams.)

I can visualize that, Porkpal, thanks.

Your pig set up sounds good, porkpal.

Dave, I was thinking pens on all four sides of the coop but maybe as big as your pens are going to be (40 x 50, weren't they?) you may do fine with dividing what you have planned. This may save some construction money also, especially since part of the reason of having divided pens is for when you introduce new chicks which, being smaller, won't require the same square footage as the laying hens will. Maybe the same for the meat birds also since they'll be small to begin with and then over and done with in a couple months.

I remember how fast my birds would defoliate my pens but perhaps i had too much activity going on. I can't remember the recommended square footage in a coop for the various breeds (heavies vs moderate or light weights) nor the recommended square footage for grazing pens but that should also come into play when considering the number of chickens, as I'm sure you already know.

I once had a coop I could place in a garden/field and would run temporary fencing off various sides using fiberglass electric fence posts with fabric fencing (nope, didn't use any electric wire). I could easily set it up in a given run in my garden for a period of time then pull up the posts and put them back in on another side of the coop in another area of the garden. This wasn't as time-consuming as moving a chicken tractor every couple of days. Since your property is hard fenced keeping 4-legged predators out it could be something to consider. Personally, I like your idea of a solid coop and no moving of any fencing (or chicken tractor)!

Back to fencing around your coop, can you place the coop where you can add an extra pen off the fourth side later if needed?

Shoe

That is exactly what I've been thinking about, Shoe. We could easily extend the pen down on one side to add a fourth pen. In fact, it's something that wouldn't need to be done at build time but added on to later. I just drew this up as a mockup:



The 3 big pens are 40x50 each and the small middle one is approx. 20x40.

Wow Dave!! it is a good thing you have a lot of space for such an large project

There ya go! I like that newest drawing! Makes me wanna start all over again so when I grow up I can have a nice coop and pens like you, Dave! I think you'll be happy with that, especially with the add-on ability.

Shoe (off to feed a few baby chicks)

Thanks, Shoe, and everyone else! Looks like I've got a good starting point. Now to design the interior...

I can't wait to see the interior.

Oh, we all want to see the interior design.

Tell us more about raising the chickens for meat? As I understand it those are a different breed from the egg layers?

dave said:Thanks, Shoe, and everyone else! Looks like I've got a good starting point. Now to design the interior...

Sounds really cool,,,
I'm really excited to see your interior, and I wish I could see as early as possible,,