Daylilies forum: Rhizomatous daylilies?

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caitlinsgarden
Sep 8, 2013 4:58 PM CST
Does anyone know if Salmon Pagoda is rhizomatus? It looks like it to me. I have been collecting a few "spreaders" but I would like to know which ones they are! I have Shirley, Salmon Sheen, and a few Mahieus that possibly have rhizomes. Not sure if there are more? Anyone have any?
Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
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philljm
Sep 8, 2013 6:37 PM CST
I thought all daylilies had rhizomes - or am I just confused? ~Jan
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Sep 8, 2013 9:47 PM CST
Jan, you are correct. The species just have that, "I run where I wanna" habit compare to the "new hybrids", that just form a clump. I have read of some of Mahieus hybrids that were crossed from the species line that are runners.
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caitlinsgarden
Sep 9, 2013 5:29 AM CST
What do you call those long runners?
Name: Elizabete Rutens
(Zone 10b)
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ElizabeteRutens
Sep 9, 2013 8:23 AM CST
caitlinsgarden said:What do you call those long runners?


Caitlin, what you are describing are stolons. See http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/stolon.html :"A horizontal branch that grows out from the base of a plant and produces new plants from buds at its tip or nodes. "

Some contemporary hybrids retain a stoloniferous trait. It's the reason that some of us buyers have inadvertently received incorrect orders from well-meaning, honest growers. I once ordered Moldovan's "Mutton Jade" from a seller, but instead received Moldovan's "Tae Kwon Do." It turned out that the two plants were planted next to each other in the grower's garden, and "Tae Kwon Do" sneaked over and established itself in the midst of "Mutton Jade." By a stroke of bad luck, I received fans of TKD instead of MJ.

In my own garden I've noticed that Spacecoast Fancy Dancer also is stoloniferous, but off the top of my head I can't remember which others are, as well. But, they are out there. : )

All the best - E.


caitlinsgarden
Sep 9, 2013 8:36 AM CST



I found this dscription at LoonSong :

"The crown, located between the roots and the foliage, is the heart of the daylily, functioning as its essential growth center. Most daylilies must have a piece of the crown (along with some roots and foliage) to grow; a daylily does not naturally grow from a piece of true root or from a leaf cutting. Daylilies do not grow from bulbs. Some daylilies (typically species or “wild” types) form rhizomes that can produce a new plant. Rhizomes have scales and internodes, while true roots do not. Most modern cultivars do not form rhizomes.

Roots vary in shape and thickness, and they generally grow more downward than out. Enlarged or thickened parts of the roots are thought to be for water storage.

A daylily's strap-like leaves emerge directly from the crown and grow in an arching or fountain-shape clump. (This is one way to distinguish a daylily from a “true” lily, i.e., Lilium, which has whorls of stemmed foliage at intervals on a stalk.)

Scapes (flowering stems), initiate from the crown and form branches and buds for flowering. Scape heights range from 12" to 60" or taller.

Modern daylilies do not grow true from seed. The offspring from seeds will usually look quite different from either of the parent plants.

To be true to name, a daylily needs to be grown from a piece of the original plant. The usual process is to dig a mature plant and make divisions. To be viable, a division must include part of the crown, part of the root system, and part of the upper foliage. (Note that a piece of rhizome may also produce a new daylily plant for those types that produce rhizomes)."

Maybe both rhizome and stolon are both names for the same thing? The bulby - thingys at the end of the roots are called "tubers" in one drawing I found.
Name: Elizabete Rutens
(Zone 10b)
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ElizabeteRutens
Sep 9, 2013 9:03 AM CST
Caitlin, you'll have to ask an AHS expert to explain the difference. The definitions recently have changed, and frankly many no longer make sense to me, as well as some other daylily growers. But, what do I know? ; )

In any case, the new definition for rhizome is at http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/rhizome.html: "1.) An underground stem which grows outward from the plant, eventually emerging above ground as a shoot that forms a new plant of the same cultivar; roots and additional shoots can also be produced along the rhizome. 2.) Said of a plant that generates new plants from elongated underground stems called rhizomes. Example, H. Fulva "Europa". "

Compare and contrast this to the definition for stolon at http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/stolon.html: "A horizontal branch that grows out from the base of a plant and produces new plants from buds at its tip or nodes."

I suppose the difference is between an underground horizontal 'stem' vs a 'branch.' I also suppose that only some, but *NOT* all, daylilies have rhizomes.

So Cal (Zone 10b)
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OldGardener
Sep 9, 2013 10:10 AM CST
Purple Rain Dance ('89) runs for me:



It sends out long runners off the roots and can crop up quite a distance from the mother plant.

"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -Abraham Lincoln

caitlinsgarden
Sep 9, 2013 11:01 AM CST
Interesting! That wouldn't bother me too much to find it creeping about a little...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 27, 2016 7:13 AM CST
I found this old thread very interesting, (I have 'Purple Rain Dance) so I will watch it closely. I also have noticed several other daylilies (currently not sure of the names) that are sending out runners and forming plants some distance away. So I wanted to bring attention back to this because of a recent post.
1. I would like to know of any other named varieties that form plants from "runners", "rhizomes", or "stolons"?
2. Can just a piece of a "runner", "rhizome", or "stolon" grow a new plant.
I have personally dug up daylilies that were known to have "runner" type "roots" and had several plants pop up later in that area. So I am thinking that no part of a crown is necessary for this to happen.
Name: Mary
Kitchener , Canada (Zone 5b)
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tugg
Apr 27, 2016 11:08 AM CST
Such an interesting thread! I would also love to see a list of some " runner" daylilies. Also does anyone know which Mahieu daylilies do this ?
Name: Regina
Warrenville, SC (Zone 8a)
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scflowers
Apr 27, 2016 2:04 PM CST
Midnight Affair has 'runners' here...as much as a foot away. I usually dig them when they emerge and share them with friends.
I have a couple others, but this is the one I can recall off the top of my head.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
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cybersix
Apr 27, 2016 2:10 PM CST
I have a few that are "runners". But I am not able to figure out the difference on roots and growing system reading definitions. Is there a chance to see some photos? Of roots, shoots, stolon, rizhomes... Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 27, 2016 2:23 PM CST
"Roots" is not actually a correct term for what we are discussing here. But there seems to be some confusion at least to me on weather we are actually talking about stolons or rhizomes. So I used the terms interchangeably.
We are talking about a modified underground stem that is able to produce a plant a distance away from the mother plant and it does not have to be a developing Fan that splits. So to me anything that grows a new plant even an inch or two away that was not the result of a splitting fan is probably the result of a stolon or rhizome, whichever you choose to call it. True, most people would see these and assume that they are roots, but they are not actually roots. I will try to get out and dig a little and see if I can some up with some photos.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Apr 27, 2016 2:30 PM CST
Larry, many thanks for your post, and sorry if I don't understand well! Being italian I'm slow in putting together terms that I don't often use in your language.

Seeing pictures would help a lot but don't do it just for me! I have some DLs doing the same, only having this ugly soil I try not to put my hands on it!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 27, 2016 3:01 PM CST
Here are the photos I just took.
Three small scapes forming a triangle, you have to look close to see them.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/224813

Two of them are linked together and then on to the mother plant.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/8cb117

The third little fan was not connected to those two, but was connected to a mother plant 18 inches away from it.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/000669
Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/be6c32
All the plants in this row were moved last year, and I am not sure what variety this is. Pretty sure it is Flore Pleno, as you can see, it has scapes and will be blooming shortly.
Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/62379b
I also found a few little fans around a recently new arrival planted in the garden.
Persian Ruby:


Thumb of 2016-04-27/Seedfork/61578b

Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Apr 27, 2016 3:09 PM CST
Thank you Larry! Those are like stolons and I never thought DLs would make stolons. I have some doing that I think, but due to small space the new stolons are closer to the original plant. I will see tomorrow. Now it's too dark for me. Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Regina
Warrenville, SC (Zone 8a)
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scflowers
Apr 27, 2016 3:10 PM CST
Great pics, Larry.

When I grew Kwanso, I didn't think I'd ever get rid of the runners out of that bed! Some of the species are quite aggressive growers. Smiling
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 27, 2016 3:17 PM CST
This could possibly be Kwanso, I have dug tons of them over the years.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
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needrain
Apr 27, 2016 4:19 PM CST
scflowers said:

When I grew Kwanso, I didn't think I'd ever get rid of the runners out of that bed!


Runners! I think that term is what many growers would call it, rather than referring to either rhizomes or stolons. 'Runners' describes the 'how' of what is occurring and is a common descriptive term for many plants who send out little replicas of themselves, often whether they are welcome or not.

So some daylily fans increase by division, some by adding close fans thereby increasing the size of the clump and some by runners, which put the new fan out away from the mother fan.
Donald

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