Aroids forum: Lundi - Sun or shade?

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Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 14, 2013 4:23 PM CST
Hi everyone.

I just got a HUGE Lundi philodendrum from HD and am wondering what is going to be best - sun or shade?

Here's the deal....I have a spot that would be prefect, but it would get "dappled' morning sun, but pretty hot sun (between 12-4) on a few of the leaves but not the entire plant.

What I've read is that they can handle direct sun, but I've watched two of my split leafs fry to death.

Are these different?

Thanks,
Mike

Thumb of 2013-09-14/SoCalDawg/8baadb

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 15, 2013 9:16 AM CST
It seems they are the same plant...I think lundii is just an obsolete synonym...
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 15, 2013 1:49 PM CST
I agree with Swayback, I believe your plant is the Tree Philodendron (Philodendron bipinnatifidum) P. lundii and P. selloum are synonyms.

At our rental house we have a bunch of them on the southeast side of the house growing beneath hickory and black cherry trees where they receive shade until the trees go bare in winter; and we have a single plant growing on the northwest side of the house that receives full direct sun year round. They've all been there for 38+ years and get knocked back by an occasional winter frost or freeze and in my opinion the ones in shade are prettier.

~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 15, 2013 11:07 PM CST
So being in zone 10, what should my watering schedule be for this philo? It's been pretty warm (85-95) over the last few weeks.
Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 16, 2013 8:10 AM CST
Mike: I think a shadier location is best if you live in a very dry climate but they'd still need water at least once a week. The location you've chosen may work if only a couple of the leaves will be exposed to direct, hot afternoon sunlight; those sun damaged leaves could be pruned. If it's very dry in your area I think a deep drenching at least once a week (possibly twice) and possibly misting will be necessary until the plant is established. I'd also suggest mulching to keep the roots cooler.

We have very high humidity here in Florida and the Tree Philo's in our yard always got watered by the irrigation system twice weekly. Our tenants have not used the irrigation system in the 14 months they've been renting from us even though it's well water and doesn't cost them anything. The yard itself is now only sand and weeds and the Tree Philo's are fine but they've been well established for many years. Summer is generally our rainy season but some years we've been very dry and even in dangerous drought conditions but then we also have times when we are inundated with tropical storms or hurricanes that dump a lot of rain ... so it's very different from the climate on the west coast. Do you get frost and freezes in your area? We have frost and sometimes hard freezes here and the Philo's get knocked back and look pretty ratty (I think I posted a photo in the database showing cold damage) but once the weather warms up I remove all of the cold damaged leaves and they begin re-sprouting new ones quickly.

Hopefully someone from California will see this thread and have suggestions that might better fit the proper growing conditions in your area. I can only share my growing conditions here in Florida which is very different than what you have there in Ca and may not be of much help. The P. bipinnatifidum is one of the prettiest in my opinion and I hope your plant does very well for you.

Lin

~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 16, 2013 9:02 AM CST
Now that you mention it, Lin, I spent some time in riverside ca, the hottest day was 114...I was not untested in plants at the time, atleast not like I am now...

There was a big sized selloum planted at the house I stayed in( as well as the most delicious citrus I've ever had! The lemons were sweet enough to eat straight!)
It was in rather deep shade, albeit a very high canopy, no direct or even dappled light penetrated...I KNOW they never water it, but as dry as it was there, and boy was it dry by my east coast standards! The philo looked magnificent!

Nothin like the monsters at Lin's rentals! Small by comparison!
But it was a nice deep green, it looked great!
I just remember thinking at the time...wow I didn't know you could grow such a plant in ground anywhere...I had only seen them as potted house plants!

Sure wish I had this interest then!
Instead of smuggling two native lizards home in my bag, I'd have brought back a bag full of cuttings!
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Sep 16, 2013 11:05 AM CST
The Tree Philo seems to be a very tough plant.

Swayback, ok now I'm real curious ... what happened to the lizards that you smuggled home in your bag and what kind of lizards were they?

I wonder if they have giant lizards in California like the Iguanas that are common in the southern part of Florida? I guess originally the Iguana's were pets that folks set free and now they are everywhere down in the southern part of the state. It rarely gets cold in that area so the iguanas flourish but a few times over the years they've experienced temp's in the upper 30's to low 40's; when it gets that cold the Iguanas literally fall out of the trees! I prefer the little green and brown anole lizards that we have tons of here.
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 16, 2013 7:06 PM CST
Well, I guess it hadn't been watered recently OR it couldn't handle the heat - perhaps a combination of the two. I gave it a good watering late this afternoon and will hit it again first thing in the morning and see how it holds up in tomorrow's heat.

gosh, I hate doing this to plants. I feel so guilty as though I'm hurting them!
Thumb of 2013-09-17/SoCalDawg/a098e4

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 16, 2013 9:56 PM CST
My guess would be it's in way too small a pot right now, Dawg. You could pot it up, use some good, moisture-retentive potting soil, and park it in that spot to see if it survives ok, then plant it permanently if it does. That baby has never been anywhere but in a greenhouse, I'd bet. So it's missing its humid air, too. Spray it with the hose whenever you walk by! Spray the fence, and the walls of the house, too. It will all help raise the humidity.

If they're anything like orchids - and I think they are - they make darker green leaves in the shade, and lighter green ones in higher light situation. So those dark leaves it has now may get sunburnt and go the way of the dodo. But it will make new leaves with less chlorophyll in them, that will take more sun. Give it a chance and it may adapt quite well.

My P. selloums are big and well established like Lin's rental ones. They get lots of water sporadically in the hot months, regular irrigation at least 3 times per week in spring and fall, (when the humidity can be fairly low, but nothing like So. Cal) and I don't water them at all in the winter. I've never given them any fertilizer. They are under a gigantic live oak tree, and have their roots dug deeply into the oak tree humus. I blow all the oak leaves into the border so each year they get a thick new mulch of oak leaves, and the other 'stuff' that the oak trees drop on them seems to be all they need.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 16, 2013 10:34 PM CST
Thanks Elaine. That makes me feel better. I'll re-pot it and see what happens. Sad

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Sep 17, 2013 5:32 AM CST
Great advice Elaine! I thought Mike had already planted his Philo in the ground but when I saw your comment, I zoomed in and enlarged the photo and that pot does look small. I bet when the plant is removed from that container you will find it was quite root-bound. I agree that the leaves will be darker green on this Philodendron when grown in more shade. The one tree at our other house that's growing in full sun has lighter leaves than the bunch in full shade. My plants have never been fertilized in the almost 39 years we've owned the house, the leaf litter seems to be enough to keep them happy.
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 17, 2013 3:39 PM CST
Thanks Lin and Elaine.

The odd thing about this plant is the roots are actually ABOVE the dirt in the pot, circling around the stock. I'll post another closet picture later this evening that shows this.

I guess I should just go ahead and put it in the ground at this point. Just a simple amendment for our clay soil here? That spot doesn't drain all that great, especially in the winter rains. Hopefully it'll be ok.


"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Sep 17, 2013 5:10 PM CST
Aaah, that tells me that it is indeed root-bound ... I'd either put it in the ground or a much larger container.
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Region: Kentucky Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Swayback
Sep 17, 2013 7:58 PM CST
Yea, totally under potted!

Those aerial roots aren't a bad thing!
They do it all the time, but they should find their way into the soil, not circle endlessly around...

I'd stick it in the ground if I was there!
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 17, 2013 8:23 PM CST
Well, this is how I bought it from HD. I was told the roots doing that was "normal".

Is this something this particular plant does or does it actually mean it's root bound.

Also, since this is a collection spot for winter rains and drains poorly, I was thinking about maybe transplanting into a half-barrell (wine barrel pots) or maybe a similar size with well draining soil and maybe bury it...?

What do you guys think? Shrug!
Thumb of 2013-09-18/SoCalDawg/14c8ae

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 17, 2013 10:03 PM CST
They do put out aerial roots as the stem elongates, but they eventually make their way down into the soil. I'll try to remember to get a picture of them for you tomorrow.

The round and round action is not right. but there are a couple going down into the pot from the base of the leaves, that's what mine do, still. Even if the leaf begins 3ft. off the ground it puts out an aerial root that reaches down to the soil, like a prop root. Looks to me as if somebody 'tidied' up some roots that were reaching out of that pot, and wound them up like that.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 17, 2013 10:22 PM CST
So, when I go to pot it, should I bury those roots or leave them above? Any comments about my potting / planting method I mentioned above? Did it even make sense?

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Sep 18, 2013 6:57 AM CST
Looking at your last photo, the plant sure looks to be very root-bound; you might have to stomp on the sides of that pot to loosen enough to get it out, or maybe even have to cut the pot. Transplanting to a half rain barrel sounds like a good idea but I'm wondering what type of winter weather you get in your area? If you get any cold weather, mulching the ground around the plant will help protect the roots and you could throw an old blanket over the top during cold nights. Of course you are in zone 10a so I doubt you have the frost and freezes. You can spread and bury the roots, I just wouldn't pile soil too high up the base but rather plant it at the same level it is now.

Like Elaine stated, as the Tree Philo's grow they produce many aerial roots which eventually find their way to the soil line.
Thumb of 2013-09-18/plantladylin/7be1f8 Thumb of 2013-09-18/plantladylin/235d4a

~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
dyzzypyxxy
Sep 18, 2013 9:09 AM CST
Great pics, Lin. Yours show up much better than mine do, as mine are so entangled in the 'jungle' out there! I did have this smaller one that has really 'propped' itself up with its prop roots. Some of them are wrapped around the stem, too.
Thumb of 2013-09-18/dyzzypyxxy/be36e0

I agree, the half-barrel sounds like a good interim solution, before you go to all the trouble of planting it permanently. Might as well find out if the plant will tolerate and adapt to the weather, location and other factors first. They're such resiliant plants, it probably won't die on you, but it might end up looking so ratty you'd wish it would. Much better chance of keeping it pretty in a pot.

If/when you do plant in the ground, Dawg, I'd amend very generously with loose humus-y compost and then as Lin says use a generous mulch to keep the area moist and keep your clay from compacting as well. You'll have to amend on at least a yearly basis - top dress with a couple wheelbarrows of compost or that kind of stuff, and of course if you have a tree that loses its leaves, collect them up and mulch that plant with them, too. You're trying to duplicate as much as possible the natural environment where these Philos grow, and that is in semi-trop to tropical forests where the soil is loose, leafy duff. Clay soil and low humidity are your enemies as far as this plant is concerned.


Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Mike
Anaheim Hills, CA (Zone 10a)
Plumerias
SoCalDawg
Sep 18, 2013 8:00 PM CST
Heres a photo taken this evening. They branches / leaves look so "droopy". Based on Lin's photos, mine just seems..sad. Crying

What do you think?
Thumb of 2013-09-19/SoCalDawg/3c1138

"Ah, summer, what power you have to make us suffer and like it."
- Russel Baker

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