Daylilies forum: Daylily Beginner Genetics.

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Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Sunshines2day
Jun 12, 2010 7:11 PM CST
I've been experimenting with self pollinating the few daylilies I grow. I have several seed pods and wondered about cross pollinating for the first time. I think I have a an idea about whose pollen to take to the parent plant. I am curious about the genetics. Are certain characteristics dominant or co-dominant such as heavily ruffled vs slightly ruffled, amount of buds, substance of the blooms, throat color, eye rings, how the scathes branch, sun tolerance, and many more. Is there a chart online somewhere for folks interested in the very basics? Are there different "rules" for tets (which I have a greater liking to) vs dips?
(I'm interested in the very basics)....like does does red + yellow equal orange or does ruffled + non-ruffled equal ruffled)
I've got lots of questions....the answers will likely just produce more. I'm somewhat familiar the American Hemerocallis site. Would anyone be willing to help/mentor me or point me to other directions where I may research myself?

Thanks,
Linda
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Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Jun 12, 2010 7:37 PM CST
If you go to this link
http://www.chattanoogadaylilies.com/Bob_Carr.html
there is a place to click on to download a pdf of Bob Carr's color charts. That might help you. Bob Carr was a physician and very detailed about his hybridizing.

I, myself, did not notice a tendency one way or the other for which traits come from which parent. You can have hundred seeds from a cross and have all of them look different, or have all look so much alike you can't tell the difference.

So, someone with more years than I have will have to answer.

I always tried to put two parents together that complimented each other's faults. If one had a beautiful face, but no branching, I made sure the pollen I used with it was all from plants with great habit.

I have a friend who insisted on crossing reds and yellows and purples and yellows. After a couple years of seeing seedling beds full of brown and muddy colors, he has stopped that.

One general rule I heard is that you can cross a melon or a polychrome to any color.

Now I will defer to others who have more experience than I do.
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Sunshines2day
Jun 12, 2010 7:43 PM CST
Thanks for the reply...Maybe I need a dictionary 'cause I don't exactly know the terms used in your statement:
"melon or a polychrome to any color" ....I'm excited to learn something new.

I'll check out the link.

Thanks.

When the student is ready......the teacher appears.

Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Jun 12, 2010 8:04 PM CST
Anytime you see a term you do not know, you can go along the right side of the windows in this cubit, and click on "AHS Online Dictionary" to look up the terms on the AHS site.

One polychrome, which is a color, that I know of is "Little Rainbow"
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/225807/

The AHS terms page says "POLYCHROME: Flowers blending and intermingling many colors without distinct bands." and, LOL, they give a photo of Little Rainbow as an example.

melon is also a color description. AHS does not give a definition....I have looked up a few in the database, and they are registered as peach... so will have to keep thinking on one that would be "melon"..
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Jun 12, 2010 8:20 PM CST
After looking through folders of photos taken at other gardens, I finally found one that is actually registered as Melon.

Folk Tales



Thumb of 2010-06-13/daylily/d2bd77
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Sunshines2day
Jun 13, 2010 10:07 AM CST
That is sure pretty.

I thought you put another pic here as well...maybe it was somewhere else. Anyway I'll keep exploring the sites. Thanks.
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Sep 14, 2010 5:47 AM CST
I have a couple that I think fit into the polychrome category. I always thought it was a flower that exhibited different colors in its main color, sort of like a rainbow effect when you look at the flower from different angles. Here is an oldie called GLACIER SUNSET and then the second one is a seeding of mine.Thumb of 2010-09-14/Hemlady/a3ffd9
Thumb of 2010-09-14/Hemlady/623f22
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Sep 14, 2010 5:50 AM CST
You can't really tell from my pics, its really hard to explain unless you see them in person. Its almost as if the flower has a fine layer over it that exhibits several colors (or rainbow effect). That is probably how Little Rainbow got its name.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Sep 14, 2010 3:47 PM CST
I think a daylily has five generations of genes at all times so when when you cross two you have a large gene pool your dealing with, you can never predict exactly what your going to get. After working with them for many years you can have some idea of what the out come might be. Some may look like there great grand parents, daylilies you may have never seen, but those grand parents are in the background.
Name: Sunshines2day
Lubbock Texas
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Sunshines2day
Sep 14, 2010 9:14 PM CST
spunky1 that is very interesting. I have not heard of that before or even considered it. I do understand how that would occur however. Thanks for a new thought to ponder.
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Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Sep 15, 2010 9:02 AM CST
That is the exact reason I bought the seedling I did from Fred on the LA. I really wanted that TET. pep delight gene I mean I liked the shape of the seedling too, but in my mind, its going to throw more than purple and white. We shall see.
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Sep 15, 2010 2:28 PM CST
I used TPD a lot three years ago and was not impressed with 99.9% of them, however second genaration seedlings were somewhat better but not great. I found that a seedling from TPD works a lot better than TPD for me. I used Martin Blondell last year (kid from TPD) and got the big eyes I expected to get three years ago. Almost every seedling from MB had huge eyes. This is one useing MB as the pollen parent Thumb of 2010-09-15/spunky1/757eb5 This is one useing it as the pod parent.
Thumb of 2010-09-15/spunky1/5f4b2f
I have several seedlings both ways that I will move to the hybridizing area later in the year.

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
hanesh
Nov 25, 2010 12:35 PM CST
Can anyone explain bi colors and how to hybridize for them.... have you ever got a bi color by not crossing a bi color???
What about a double???
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Nov 26, 2010 6:29 AM CST
I am sure you could luck up and get a bicolor if you did enough seedlings, but if I were serious about working with these I would get some daylilies with this trait to begin with and also add some bitones to the mix. It may take thousands of seedlings when starting from scratch. This is LILLIAN'S TEARS AND ROSES a bitone of ours. I wasn't looking for a bitone it just happened.Thumb of 2010-11-26/spunky1/556cf0

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
hanesh
Nov 26, 2010 6:17 PM CST
Thanks Fred We have old king cole
Thumb of 2010-11-27/hanesh/2a7d4b


pony
Thumb of 2010-11-27/hanesh/d2025a
jean ivelle
and
avante garde it was so beautiful I used it and placed it on a black background... and used the edges of the flowers for the corners
(photos to follow)
but there doesn't seem that many of them......

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
hanesh
Nov 26, 2010 6:23 PM CST
avante guard Thumb of 2010-11-27/hanesh/572b22
jean ivelleThumb of 2010-11-27/hanesh/0c481a
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
Ponds Hummingbirder Daylilies Container Gardener Butterflies Birds
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spunky1
Nov 27, 2010 6:24 AM CST
Any of those should be a good starting point, and you shouldn't have to work to many generations if you cross the kids you get from some like the ones above. Nothing comes fast and easy but if you stick with it you will get there.

I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
hanesh
Nov 27, 2010 8:26 AM CST
thanks ... I know it will take time... just like children.... did you find any one daylily produces good kids.... ie great branching but ones with substance to the bloom....
Heather
ps lillian's tears and roses is beautiful nice colors
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Nov 27, 2010 12:24 PM CST
I too love LILLIAN'S TEARS AND ROSES -- sorry I got the name wrong on the other channel -- I thought it was "Tea and Roses"...

Betty

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