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Oct 31, 2013 3:08 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Distilled water is condensed evaporation, not water that has sat around for a while waiting for substances to evaporate from it. The modern method of chlorinating water usually doesn't use a volatile (can evaporate) type of chlorination, so letting water sit does not remove it. This piece of advice comes from a time when the chemical used to chlorinate water was a type that evaporated quickly.

There can also be fluoride and/or lime in tap water, neither of which are appreciated by many plants, or evaporate within a short amount of time (days.) There is no way to remove these things from water except through filtration designed to do specifically that. Distilled, caught rain water, the condensate from a dehumidifier, are good sources of water without these chemicals added. Bottled water may or may not be tap water from somewhere, may or may not contain fluoride, chlorine, balanced PH, etc... If it's ground water, like from a spring, it's going to have some minerals in it, which won't be visible or mentioned on the label. Plants may or may not like them. I wouldn't use this expensive and 'unreliable' water for plants.
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Avatar for duppiman
Oct 31, 2013 3:43 PM CST
Thread OP

Thanks for that information Tiffany.
I do believe that fluoride was also mentioned on that site that had information about chlorine in tap water harming the plants.
I will look into the options that you mentioned.


Regards,


Rob
Avatar for Dutchlady1
Oct 31, 2013 3:55 PM CST

Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
Good info, Tiffany.
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Nov 14, 2013 2:21 PM CST
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Cactus and Succulents Region: Kentucky Moon Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Tropicals Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2
I just found this thread!

Someone poke me when there's an EE question!

@duppiman

What's the current status?
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
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Nov 14, 2013 3:42 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Interesting information about tap water, Tiffany! I did not realize that the chlorination in municipal water supplies didn't dissipate with exposure to air. I remember from many years ago being told to let the tap water sit for a day before putting water back into fish tanks; obviously things have changed! I haven't had to deal with city water for quite some time, so that's definitely something to keep in mind for future reference!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Avatar for duppiman
Nov 14, 2013 5:05 PM CST
Thread OP

Hello Midnight Gardener!

All of the plants are doing well - except for one.
Leaves are dying on all of them but new leaves are coming up.
I am using bottled water for now and that is working well.
I mist the plants every other day and make sure the water tray in which the planter is sitting has enough water.
I am investing in a water filtration system that removes chlorine and fluoride (for my family's health).
The plants will benefit as well. I always filtered the water when I lived in SE Michigan because I never trusted the water system.
I ordered a test kit to determine what contaminants are in there which will determine what filters to buy.

I may have a problem with spider mite infestation on one of EE plants.
I have a Golden Lotus Banana that is infested and it was close to the subject EE plant.
So far only one EE plant has been affected. I am taking one of the leaves from the Lotus Banana to the nursery for a remedy.
I am hoping the remedy will save both plants.
Last edited by duppiman Nov 14, 2013 6:27 PM Icon for preview
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Nov 14, 2013 9:06 PM CST
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Cactus and Succulents Region: Kentucky Moon Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Tropicals Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2
*started typing this hours before duppiman's above post*


Tiffany is right on about chlorides in water, often amines are used these days too.
Letting water sit around only concentrates them!

I doubt very seriously that's the issue!
I've used my tap water for years, different plants, mediums and situations.
Even 2 different suppliers with no adverse effects.
Potted plants in a pot for years can build up mineral deposits, that's about the only thing I've encountered.
EVERYONE'S WATER DIFFERENT!
You can't rule that out.

You got alot of advice, basically all valid and correct, I'm just gunna ignore it and give mine too.
Sticking tongue out

Growing EE indoors, out of season can be very risky!
For just the reason you've seen!
When their needs aren't fully met they slow way down growing, they can stop if things get bad enough, like winter!
At the point they are semi dormant, like yours are, then they can become rather susceptible to rot.
Heats the key, without enough then water becomes the enemy!
The roots rotting may be the plant going dormant, more likely they rotted because the soil stays wet!
Another problem is that the 2 you chose don't like the cold, and don't make huge bulbs, especially at that size!

Often dry dormant storing is best, but some types just won't have enough bulb at the size yours are at.

Without knowing the current status, I can't advise what to do, I can critique, and tell you I would have done... Hilarious!
Don't worry too much, if all else fails, and they don't make it, just contact me, I can load you up for pretty cheap next spring! Thumbs up

If everything is going well, don't do a thing!
We gotta find what works for each of us!

I'm afraid your mix is still not good, don't trash it, it'll be GREAT for summer time!
Theres a good chance it would even still work just fine, but I bet it needs more perlite.

What I plant in for winter time will be totally dry and crusty on top in 3 days, it will be ok down in there for a few weeks, kinna sounds like your mix is doing the same but I worry it's too moist...but I can't tell from here.
It's critical that the soil holds some moisture, but not much, for a decent amount of time.
I hate to admit it, but peat works great under the right conditions, I usually use lots of other stuff mixed in with it most times.
It's possible to even grow in pure peat, and feeding regularly.
The key is to mash and compress the peat down in the pot with your thumbs, if your mix if fluffy at all I always mash the mix in the pot, especially around the edge of the pot, it'll eat up alot of mix, or peat.
This will help the soil maintain the same moisture level throughout.

You don't want to be watering that often, but the soil cannot be dense or heavy, slick or slimey...it needs to be nice fluffy soilless mix, with lots of perlite or the like.
Lots of air, lots of drainage!
Let them go as long as you/they can stand.

If you can manage to get all that right then give them the most light indoors that you can, and the most heat, and that's all you can do.
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
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Nov 14, 2013 9:27 PM CST
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Cactus and Succulents Region: Kentucky Moon Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Tropicals Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Ok mites...ack
That's as bad as it gets for indoor tropicals, bud, not good!

With a hand lens and google at your side, you can tell if they are spider mites, look for tiny yellowish sand around the the veins of the backs if the leaves and on the very rim of the plant, under the lens you might see they have 2 red dots, you may not!
Just look for light dots of dust and watch it close, if it moves it's a mite!

Solutions are numerous and roundly ineffective!
If your as into your plants as it seems you can do it with no chems, it's best!
Simply up your spray schedule to 3 times a day, spray well, under each leaf especially!
Mites love hot dry air, and hate misting, it won't kill them but if you keep it up, they will not be able to breed!

Make sure they are not near air cents, that's DRY air, plus mites fly on currents with their webs, little paratroopers!
You could even even build a little text around your EE to raise humidity and fight the mites!

That banana is trouble though!
If it's got em, and it prolly does , they love nanners too, then it's going to be a constant source of paratroopers!
Is it a houseplant or going back out in may?
Either way, wipe it down daily, touch every surface as best you can, the slightest touch squishes them.

2-3 weeks of daily wipe down and 3 a day misting and you will have them well in check, I've decided that fully eliminating thems a pipe dream!

There's a hundred safe or safer products to treat them, they love pot too, there's a product aimed at that that works well, mighty wash, you can find very effective receipes to make your own too, but they need to be washed off after. A mess!
Dish soap...pepper water...isopropyl...hundreds more home remedies...

For full scale war...azamax...

It's approved for day of harvest use on food crops, and is, so your not exposed to anything you aren't already getting from the grocery anyway, but it only kills the bugs it touchs, so spray good!
Id suggest outdoors!
Spray it once a week for 4 weeks and that should get all of their cycles.

Good luck with those little freinds... Rolling my eyes.
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Avatar for duppiman
Nov 15, 2013 7:33 AM CST
Thread OP

Hey Midnight Gardener!
Thanks so much for all that info. I agree with your comment about all the advice I have been given.
I certainly agree with the info about the soil and that they are going dormant or are semi-dormant. I read about that possibility elsewhere. Advice was similar to yours and to wait 8 weeks and then start watering.

When my wife and I looked at the banana plant she told me to get rid of it.
It was the heat vent to which it was very close then that caused them to re-infest the plant so quickly.
The infestation is too bad. It's like taking baking powder, covering a leaf and then shaking it just a bit so that some of the powder falls off.
What you are left with is a white haze all over the leaf making it look like the bloody thing has makeup on.
The mites seem to prefer foliage that is relatively thin. They do not bother my clivias.

You are very right about the remedies and claims for killing those little pests.
My Google-Fu has been pretty strong this past week and I have found enough info to render myself daft and thoroughly indecisive.
However, I am going to try a product called SAFER Insect Killing Soap today.
A friend recommended it for killing mites and fungus gnats. Has worked very well for her.
I'll give that a try but I'm taking my wife's advice and ordering another one Big Grin

I have to replant a couple of the EEs and so I'll add more perlite when I do that.
If all else fails I will take you up on that offer next Spring.
We might be further South of here at that time.


Regards,


Rob
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Nov 15, 2013 8:44 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
I've always had trouble with SM's when trying to winter EE's, Cannas inside. You can wipe the leaves, especially the bottom of them, with a cotton ball damp (not dripping) with rubbing alcohol. I got sick of it in OH and started storing them dormant in my basement for winter. The SM's didn't kill the plants, but they just looked pitiful, so pointless to have 'growing.' If that's not an option, (cold, dry storage) you can cut everything off at the soil level, for EE or banana, and they should grow new foliage.

What's the temps at night where you are? Putting EE outside in a *light* frost can do the leaf-removal and SM murdering for you. You would want the soil to be dry, so the plant is about to wilt, to do that. That would likely cause the plant to take much longer to grow new foliage, but if all you're trying to do is get it through winter, that could be a blessing. Cold causes them to go dormant here in the ground outside, but they are hardy and grow back in the spring.

Wiping the leaves once a week or so should keep their numbers low after the new foliage starts coming back. When outside, it's aphids that get on them, not usually SM's who, as said, thrive in dry air. I'm more concerned about fungus and other pathogens on leaves that could be 'activated' by misting/spraying leaves, so I never do that.

SM's can also be rinsed away, though EE's aren't usually shaped for doing that easily. But basically, one would put their plant in the tub, on its' side, and rinse the foliage while trying not to totally drench the soil. If the rootball is solid, that works well. If the soil is loose, obviously that's not going to work. This can get plants through winter until they can go back outside, where SM's are rarely a problem during the warm, humid summer. (Aphids can be rinsed in a similar manner, and much easier to do on plants that are outside. They can also be removed with the rubbing alcohol cotton balls.)
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
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Nov 15, 2013 4:09 PM CST
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Cactus and Succulents Region: Kentucky Moon Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Tropicals Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Shoot!
If you still have the banana it's pretty easy to save it!

Go find it if you can!
Just cut that bad boy off at the soil so the mites can't feed on it, that banana especially can handle being stored dry!
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!
Avatar for duppiman
Nov 15, 2013 9:21 PM CST
Thread OP

Hello Tiffany and Midnight Gardener!

Apologies for the late response. Many thanks for all the good advice.
I was thinking it was SMs because of the webs formed at the tips of the leaves.
I have very little experience with pests other than the dreaded fungus gnat.
Since the indication that aphids do the eating then I am leaning towards a double infestation because I have never seen aphids make webs.

I will stop the misting and add more perlite to the soil.
I think I will just go ahead and cut off the leaves on the banana.
It does grow quickly indoors and I can continue the systemic treatment.

It drops down to the mid 30's here in Northern VA.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
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Nov 15, 2013 11:33 PM CST
Kentucky 😔 (Zone 6a)
Cactus and Succulents Region: Kentucky Moon Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Tropicals Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2
No no

Mist more!

Lots more...

Information bombardment!
Sticking tongue out
Please tree mail me for trades, I'm ALWAYS actively looking for more new plants, and love to trade!

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