@terrafirma .........

Thanks for making me smile.

I have trouble visualizing things, so I just couldn't quite see what I needed to do in my mind. So as soon as one question is answered, four more crop up.

Smiles,
Lyn

I can certainly relate to that!!!! Seems to always be the way it goes for me too!

Seems to me that the first 'tree' you have planted is actually a shrub. The more I look at your photos, it seems like the easier/better thing to do may be to allow it to be a shrub. You have a nice plant there and when you decide if you want a tree or a shrub, then select the answers provided for that purpose.

The advice I had given was for the purpose of creating a tree shape so if you opt for 'shrub' you can ignore most of what I said, except for the crossed limbs part and the open it up part (let the sun shine in).

(Sure wish I lived nearby on pruning day so I could grab up the cuttings and root one!)

Rosebush, your "artful" photos are just fine. They show exactly what we need to see!

>>>> I think what you are saying, please correct me if I am wrong, is to allow one of those four branches to have apical dominance by reducing the height of two of the other branches and eliminating the smallest branch to create a "form" for the canopy as the plant grows.

It's really the three hefty branches at the top that seem to want to "take over" that are of concern. The fourth, more laterally growing one, will just be a nice branch all on its own. Yes, I would recommend cutting one of the three hefty top branches completely off, where it junctures with the other two.

This will eliminate the odd branch configuration problem.

Which one you would cut off is up to you, but I would choose the most upright growing one to keep for sure, even if it is not the largest. And yes, then you would prune back the other strong stem to encourage it to be subordinate to the most upright stem. If it suits you, there is nothing wrong with completely cutting the second off too, and leaving only one strong stem at the top. In fact, as I think about this more, leaving only one strong stem at the top is the better option. It will simplify pruning later on.

About the branch coming from ground level, if it were me, I would cut it off completely. This will keep your options open for later, and you will still be able to decide on a bush or tree form. If you keep that lowest branch, you've committed yourself to the bush style.

Oops, I didn't mean to click "finish".....
So continuing on,

That would be about all the major pruning I would do for now. A few little things here and there would be fine; I just like to stay close to the "no more than one-quarter of total foliage pruned at one time" theory. Maybe that's not so important in warm climates, I don't know. Obviously, Greene does it, and no matter what, it certainly won't kill the tree.

>>>> I had been told that after flowering, I should cut each twiggy shoot back by two nodes to create a denser branching at the ends of those shoots so that I would have more flowers the following year. Is this correct information ?

If you want to do this, that's fine, but you wouldn't do it to only the twiggy branchlets, but especially the vigorous ones, in an attempt to produce a uniform branch size throughout. Personally, I don't go for this thick bushy, humanly contrived styling. I like the natural form and character that each species has. (Not that there is anything wrong with heavy continuous pruning.) The pruning you mention to create more flowering will not create more flowering, but will create a more densely flowering plant. As the relatively unpruned plant becomes larger than the heavily pruned plant, it will produce more flowers, but still with a looser arrangement.

I prefer star magnolias as a shrub, but of course that is my own preference. We have a lot of rain and autumn/fall gales here and those that are grown tree "like" can get top heavy if not looked after and do tend to get damaged at this time of year! Over here they can get mildew and other diseases as it is damp so I like to get air into the centers of them, so thin them out quite a bit. I do prune mine and my mothers quite vigorously and to two nodes to make for more condensed flowers. I try to keep mine as compact shrubs and not too leggy as they can and I have seen it happen, snap quite easily in a gale.
I was taught to always walk away from them and then look at them from different positions and you can see what needs to be pruned out. This works with some pruning, but not all pruning takes to this.
Sometimes they are best left well alone if you have the space and protection from the winds here.
Regards.
Neil.

Thank you all. My star magnolia is going to be a shrub. At my elevation in the mountains, when we get snow, it is the heavy, wet, gloppy stuff that can cause breakage.

Leftwood, I agree that I prefer to see the natural form of a plant and prune for the health of the plant and for the overall look of how the plant works where it is sited. I don't want to force it to look dense. I just want it to look healthy.

So, now that the decision has been made to let the plant be a shrub, how do I shape it ? I am thinking that if I get the basic structure of the plant right at this stage of its life, it will be easier to maintain it as time goes by.

In its current site, the plant doesn't need to be taller to be effective.

Here's a photo taken from the almost the same angle this spring.




From the same side of the plant, but with me standing on the stairs looking down.




From the other side of the plant.



Of course, it has grown some this season, but it still has the same growth habit shown in the photos of my previous post. Now that I am looking at it as a shrub, I am not sure about my pruning cuts again. In these, photos, you can't see where the leader was removed by the nurseryman, but you can get a sense of how it is sited and how it looks after it has leafed out.

Thank you, so very much for your patience.

@greene, I'll be happy to send you cuttings in the spring. I am guessing I will have plenty of material to share.

Smiles,
Lyn

I think you will be happier with a shrub form. It's just more natural.

I am happy you made a decision and I think it is a good choice.
With the shrub form the only pruning (other than the crossed branches previously mentioned) would be to maybe cut off anything that sticks out too far. Guess that means less cuttings for me, oh well.

I know I am no help, but I rather like its current asymmetry.

You will want to make sure that the topgrowth doesn't get overpowering and shade the lower growths significantly. When this happens, the plant will naturally shut down the shaded branches, and they will die off. You will probably find that the top of the plant will always want to grow more vigorously, and you will need to shorten and thin the growth out to allow sun to reach lower foliage. This will encourage the lower branches to be as healthy as the upper ones and bloom just as well, too.

I would still completely remove one of the three hefty top branches. The odd branching configuration will still become more noticeable in time. And it looks as though the topmost growths are already on there way to dominating over the lower branches. You will probably want to cut them back, even as much as half their length.

@Leftwood ...

I had to learn how to insert an arrow in an image before I could answer

I am thinking that after I remove one of the "three hefty top branches", I should prune the remaining branches back hard so that I don't create that "mop head" you mentioned in your post above.

Last spring, the point where they branched out was about the middle of the plant. What do you call that ? ... the point where the nurseryman took out the leader ?





I am uncertain as to how far back I should prune them, but that would reduce their dominance and allow light to the lower branches.

I've taken the photo and enlarged it and created two photos that show the growth above that point and below. Maybe that will make it easier for you to tell me what to do.

Top growth on hefty branches:







Lower growth:




It looks like Joe also removed the nodes for branches at the base of the plant on the right side of the photo. This is just a guess, but I think that means that there will never be new growth on that side of the plant at the base. Am I correct ?

I think just working on the top growth and possibly removing the one branch that touches the ground would equal the 1/4th plant reduction that you recommended, so any other pruning/shaping would have to be done the following year. Again, I am uncertain about that assumption, too, or should I still plan on cutting the lower branches back by half this year ?

Maybe I am over-thinking this whole thing, but I still feel like what I do now will have a major impact on future growth and I want to do it as well as I can.

Thank you so much for your help.

Smiles,
Lyn

BTW, I do appreciate you "calling" me back, as I probably wouldn't otherwise return to this thread until tomorrow.

>>> I am thinking that after I remove one of the "three hefty top branches", I should prune the remaining branches back hard so that I don't create that "mop head" you mentioned in your post above.

Yes. These are the ones I was talking about when I said "You will probably want to cut them back, even as much as half their length." I would also add that when you cut them back, leave the upright-most one taller. This will encourage the plant use it as the dominant stem, with the shorter one being subordinate, and create a more pleasing branch structure.

>>> Last spring, the point where they branched out was about the middle of the plant. What do you call that ? ... the point where the nurseryman took out the leader ?

There probably is a special name for it, but I don't know it. Before these top branches actually grew, when they were still just buds at the top of a single stem, they (all together) would be called the "apical bud cluster". The fourth, littler branch originates just below the three hefty ones, and would not have been part of the apical bud cluster.

First choose your upright most branch, and cut off around a third to a half. Cut down to just above a bud or branch that will look best to be a leader (a more upright branch or inward facing bud). Even though a true leader is not your aim, this will be the most aesthetically pleasing. For instance, and I stress this is only an example of what you might do, cut here:


Choose one of the three hefty branches to remove completely, and remove it.

The other branch you will want to cut 6 inches or more lower that the upright most branch that you have pruned, and rather than choosing to cut above an upright bud or branch, you will cut just above an outfacing (away from the center of the plant) bud or branch. For instance, this:


As you say, it will probably be best to wait until sometime after next spring's bloom to do any more major prune cuts, but you can do a few more nips here or there if you want.

It is likely that your pruning at the top will encourage a more dense growth (multiple branchlets) at the top. If this starts to shade the lower parts too much, you will want to thin them again. (Remember, no mophead. )

>>> It looks like Joe also removed the nodes for branches at the base of the plant on the right side of the photo. This is just a guess, but I think that means that there will never be new growth on that side of the plant at the base. Am I correct ?

No and yes. You cannot remove nodes unless you actually strip the wood below the bark. That would be bad, and he didn't do that. But it is just the nature of the tree that it probably won't produce any new growth from the main stem in that open area to the right. There isn't anything you can do to encourage new growth there, except make sure that it gets light, which it does. Just allow the nearby branches to fill in that area.

>>> I think just working on the top growth and possibly removing the one branch that touches the ground would equal the 1/4th plant reduction that you recommended, so any other pruning/shaping would have to be done the following year. Again, I am uncertain about that assumption, too, or should I still plan on cutting the lower branches back by half this year ?

Your major pruning is now done. Just little nips here or there as you may see fit. It's likely that you won't be cutting any of the lower branches back by as much as half. The aim is to have good light reaching all branches of the plant for good flowering, growth and form. This means that the lower part will always be wider than the upper part.

@Leftwood ......

You are a wonderful teacher. I can actually see in my mind what I need to do to my star magnolia to create a plant than will shine and call my name every time I work in that part of the garden. Thank you. I am also beginning to understand how to prune other plants so that they can be their best. That's a fine gift you have given to me.

If we were talking about roses, I understand the botany of the plants and grow several different classes and have grown them in very different climates. I can walk by a rose a know exactly what it needs just by glancing at it because I have handled so many different cultivars over the years. During the winter months, I even plan which rose to prune first and what the pruning cuts will be. (They've lost their leaves and I can see the architecture of the plant.) I try to learn from the rose.

To me, this was a situation where I was having difficulty learning from the plant which created an incredible amount of uncertainty in me in how to proceed. However, this was a totally new experience for me as I work to include other plants into my plant pallet.

I actually feel comfortable, now, about how to address the awkward growth and still keep the plant healthy.

Thank you for all of the time you have invested in sharing your knowledge and experience to give me the sense of confidence that I needed to go forward.

Smiles,
Lyn

Thanks, Lyn.
Pruning is one of my specialties and I have given many seminars and workshops on the subject.
I enjoy it very much.

@Leftwood, Rick

I thought you might want to see my how my star magnolia looks this spring. I didn't take it back as hard as you suggest simply because I am a wuss ... I figured that if I didn't like how it looked I could always take off more later.

I took these photos after spending the day working on one of the street beds. Unfortunately, I didn't stop working until the light started to go. The plant is just starting to open its blooms.










Smiles,
Lyn