Lilies forum: Lilies and deceiving colors

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Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 9:55 AM CST
Mistakes can happen. We can all understand an honest error but I do have a serious problem with companies who present stock photos that obviously have had the colors changed. Some lilies have been offered for sale for years and yet the companies must be reluctant to have customers supply them with accurate photos - that really bothers me.

I've heard that location, soil pH, nutrients, sun/shade, and climate can affect colors yet the dark ones I grow in mostly shade or even part shade are just not as dark as portrayed.

Just making the color lighter on Picasa does not result in the true color. It's wont make Trebbiano "lime green" or "pale green" and it won't make Dimension as dark as shown, nor will it show what Sumatra or Paraguay really looks like in the garden.

This is one entry, by Zuzu, showing my grief with Trebbiano:
Lily (Lilium 'Trebbiano')

Here are a few examples:

Trebbiano

Thumb of 2013-12-07/pirl/54266f

Paraguay

Thumb of 2013-12-07/pirl/d9cb82

Sumatra

Thumb of 2013-12-07/pirl/a5b654

Dimension

Thumb of 2013-12-07/pirl/f0fd8c

Is it really asking too much to want accurate colors on the lilies being offered for sale?
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
Image
ge1836
Dec 7, 2013 10:23 AM CST
I always look at Google images.
There are many photos of the same plant.I dont pay attention to the images websites use the darks are always misrepresented especially eggplant colors.In the web photos I can see blue added ,this showes upin the background greens.If they are blue green the lily has been shopped.
Plant Files usually has real photos of plants in gardeners gardens.
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
Image
TBGDN
Dec 7, 2013 10:30 AM CST
I have had the same problem over the years, and I sometimes wonder if I am getting the 'actual' plant that I ordered. Here are some I have questioned in the past that have been declined in the ATP database because of questionable identity: Yet the bulb companies insist they
are the real McCoy!

Altari

Black Dragon
Thumb of 2013-12-07/TBGDN/0e0aa6 Thumb of 2013-12-07/TBGDN/76571f Thumb of 2013-12-07/TBGDN/21b5fe
Boogie Woogie


Boogie Woogie is shown in the catalogs with a pink rim around the outer petals and sepals: It does NOT show up in my plants. I do not question the moderators because they know better than me: But it is frustrating to pay good money for something that is in fact debatable or in question. BTW I will never attempt a 'color change' in Photoshop: It's phoney! What the camera sees is what happens.

Thanks for bringing this up Arlene. Smiling
Lux Umbra Dei
[Last edited by TBGDN - Dec 7, 2013 10:35 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #522813 (3)
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
Image
TBGDN
Dec 7, 2013 10:34 AM CST
ge1836 said:I always look at Google images.
There are many photos of the same plant.I dont pay attention to the images websites use the darks are always misrepresented especially eggplant colors.In the web photos I can see blue added ,this showes upin the background greens.If they are blue green the lily has been shopped.
Plant Files usually has real photos of plants in gardeners gardens.


I agree Thanks for bringing this up Jo Ann. Most of the Google images are a joke! I have even seen some of mine in there mis-represented.
Lux Umbra Dei
Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
Image
ge1836
Dec 7, 2013 10:41 AM CST
Leon : I was referring to the photographers who take images for commercial websites. I can tell when the images are shopped and the saturation has been monkied with.
I just import the image and shop it til the greens are right,that changes the bloom color every time.
Its how I passed on The Lily Gardens "Midnight" dark purple lily.It was really dark pink. I havnt seen it in her cat. for a couple of years.

BTW your alteries look right to me.

Thumb of 2013-12-07/ge1836/f46dcf

Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 10:42 AM CST
Jo Ann - I totally agree. The problem comes in with new introductions - there are no existing photos of the lilies actually growing in "normal" gardens. When using Google we all get the same, repeated, stock photos.

It's very upsetting when some of the major well respected firms are still using the phony photos. We get to pay full price - no discounts for altered colors!

The customer is totally dependent on the photos presented. We shouldn't be the testing ground. These lilies (and other plants) do not increase sales for the companies. They work in reverse and stop us from buying.

Leon - I can sympathize with you! I've been in the exact same spot with photos being denied in the database and I, too, haven't a quarrel with anyone over the photos yet the name is accurate in sales. It's very disturbing.

Name: Jo Ann Gentle
Pittsford NY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Heucheras Hellebores Container Gardener
Birds Region: New York Irises Garden Ideas: Master Level Avid Green Pages Reviewer Lilies
Image
ge1836
Dec 7, 2013 10:45 AM CST
Pirl new introes crossed my mind when I was sending that post.
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
Image
TBGDN
Dec 7, 2013 10:50 AM CST
Jo Ann
Yes, I understand. I know exactly what you mean. And you are right on!
Lux Umbra Dei
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 10:58 AM CST
The frustration level is high when planting, as I do, with the color echoes theory. That screaming garish gold of Trebbiano is so annoying. It doesn't match the pale green I had in mind when planning the area. I'd truly rather not have any plant in that spot than to have that horrid color, which might be fine elsewhere or in someone else's garden.
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 7, 2013 11:01 AM CST
That is amazing! This is why I like to see it in a real garden before I buy it. But, I have taken a chance of a few and like to point this out, just like you have here. Good job!
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 11:07 AM CST
Thanks. We all get suckered in by unbelievable colors. Sometimes I'm delighted that colors are true as the plants bloom - that shouldn't be the case!

Daylilies are another area where the color is played with by the pro's. It led me to stop buying any daylilies though I love them.

Perhaps the last flowers left, where the colors aren't changed, are dahlias...thank goodness!

Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Dec 7, 2013 11:14 AM CST
You can add Purple Prince to the list as well. I think, in the photo of Paraguay you posted, it's a case of wrong bulb or mix up at some point by somebody. In the case of Trebbiano, I think the old stock photo of the old Garrit Zalm is still being used almost universally. In it's introduction, Trebbiano was touted as the inproved Garret Zalm. Of course, most lily hobbyists got to know about these color description discrepancies pretty fast--in a disgusting way! I'd like to know myself why these old stock photos don't get updated at the printers. On the flip side, all of the pictures in The Lily Garden's catalog (Judith Freeman) are actual photographs of what she grows and sells Thumbs up And most of those listed by Faraway Flowers website are actual photographs as well.

If your looking for a Longiflorum-Asiatic that looks like what you think Trebbiano should look like, try Courier, an often overlooked lime color beauty with heavy substance. Pic. attached.


Thumb of 2013-12-07/Roosterlorn/c30590



Thumb of 2013-12-07/Roosterlorn/362d6c

Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 11:21 AM CST
Thanks for the photos and the good word on the Lily Garden's photos, Lorn.

You wanted to know why the old stock photos aren't being replaced. Most likely because the phony photo sells lilies. How pathetic is that?

The double whammy happens when one of us buys a lily, takes photos and posts them in the database and then many more of us want them and the company doesn't have sufficient stock so we either give up or join the long waiting list. There are a few of us who aren't content to wait another two years due to our age!
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 11:26 AM CST
I meant to add Purple Prince but until you reminded me it had slipped my slippery mind!

Here it is: (the dark one is the phony photo)




Thumb of 2013-12-07/pirl/a7218a

Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Dec 7, 2013 12:30 PM CST
Leon--I agree with Jo Ann, your Altari IS Alteri. However, your Black Dragon is NOT Black Dragon, and should never have been sold as such. It looks like a lighter colored Midnight, which varies in intensity from very dark to a lighter pink. Your Boogie Woogie IS Boogie Woogie. Sometimes the pink edge doesn't develop if warm nights are experienced a week or so before the buds open, which happens more often than not here. But I get a good show if I'm lucky with cool nights. The same is true for Porcelain Doll, Tropical Isle and some other pink picotee types. Smiling
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 7, 2013 12:36 PM CST
Roosterlorn said:You can add Purple Prince to the list as well. I think, in the photo of Paraguay you posted, it's a case of wrong bulb or mix up at some point by somebody. In the case of Trebbiano, I think the old stock photo of the old Garrit Zalm is still being used almost universally. In it's introduction, Trebbiano was touted as the inproved Garret Zalm. Of course, most lily hobbyists got to know about these color description discrepancies pretty fast--in a disgusting way! I'd like to know myself why these old stock photos don't get updated at the printers. On the flip side, all of the pictures in The Lily Garden's catalog (Judith Freeman) are actual photographs of what she grows and sells Thumbs up And most of those listed by Faraway Flowers website are actual photographs as well.

If your looking for a Longiflorum-Asiatic that looks like what you think Trebbiano should look like, try Courier, an often overlooked lime color beauty with heavy substance. Pic. attached.


Thumb of 2013-12-07/Roosterlorn/c30590



Thumb of 2013-12-07/Roosterlorn/362d6c


Thumbs up
Thanks for the great information, I love Faraway Flowers and they are a top 5 watchdog company AND they take their own pictures! Thank you!
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
Image
TBGDN
Dec 7, 2013 2:06 PM CST
Roosterlorn said:Leon--I agree with Jo Ann, your Altari IS Alteri. However, your Black Dragon is NOT Black Dragon, and should never have been sold as such. It looks like a lighter colored Midnight, which varies in intensity from very dark to a lighter pink. Your Boogie Woogie IS Boogie Woogie. Sometimes the pink edge doesn't develop if warm nights are experienced a week or so before the buds open, which happens more often than not here. But I get a good show if I'm lucky with cool nights. The same is true for Porcelain Doll, Tropical Isle and some other pink picotee types. Smiling

Thanks Lorn-
Like Arlene said the bulb companies show an altered picture which leads the buyer to 'think' he/she is getting the correct cultivar or one that looks like the picture. And I can agree with this quote:
You wanted to know why the old stock photos aren't being replaced. Most likely because the phony photo sells lilies. How pathetic is that?
I also appreciate your input on my "identity crisis" with the lilies. At least I can always post the pictures in the generic file which covers them all. But it would be nice to have them accurately identified; even if there are minor variations. Smiling
Lux Umbra Dei
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
Dec 7, 2013 2:21 PM CST
Leon - I'm sure the moderators are watching and they are all trying to help you with the accurate ID's on your lilies. I hope so!

Here's the page from B & D on Black Dragon and they do mention there are variances in the depth of coloring.
http://www.bdlilies.com/l6000.html
Name: virginiarose
Virginia
Money talks but Chocolate Sings!
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Hibiscus Dragonflies Daylilies
Bee Lover Dahlias Butterflies Hostas Birds Lilies
virginiarose
Dec 7, 2013 2:52 PM CST
TBGDN said:
Thanks Lorn-
Like Arlene said the bulb companies show an altered picture which leads the buyer to 'think' he/she is getting the correct cultivar or one that looks like the picture. And I can agree with this quote: I also appreciate your input on my "identity crisis" with the lilies. At least I can always post the pictures in the generic file which covers them all. But it would be nice to have them accurately identified; even if there are minor variations. Smiling


You could try the ID forum because there are experts from all over the site, and they put their brains together and amaze me all the time!!

http://garden.org/forums/view/plantid/
Susan

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.....Margaret Atwood
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
Image
TBGDN
Dec 7, 2013 5:43 PM CST
virginiarose said:

You could try the ID forum because there are experts from all over the site, and they put their brains together and amaze me all the time!!

]http://garden.org/forums/view/plantid/

Thanks Susan: I think I'll drop it. It's not worth the hassle, disagreements and uncertainty. I think Lorn said it best, so I'll leave it at that. Smiling

Lux Umbra Dei

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