Arlene, I like that B&D website. It contains a wealth of resource information. Clicking on the 'site map' leads to all kinds of interesting stuff!

Lorn,
In reading the B&D description of Black Dragon I see the following:

This is a strain of similar-looking plants grown from seed, so expect some variance in flower shape, size, and the intensity of outer markings. This is the true 'Black Dragon' strain developed by Jan de Graaff, bred from his "M-12" breeding stock, not the "pseudo-strain" being offered by others.

This tells me #1 there are bogus plants being sold out there and #2 there are flower variations of the real strain. I am missing my TV movie so I will save this for another day. It gets complicated.

I'm totally on your side, Leon, and will look again at my own photos to see if I have anything comparable...and the name that came with it.

The blurb about the variances and "intensities of outer markings" makes me wonder. I have some Golden Splendor whose buds are colored differently on the exact same stem and the same happens with African Queen. I doubt any two buds are 100% identical.

I need to retract a suggestion I made earlier in the thread where I inferred that Leon's 'Black Dragon' could possibly be Midnight. After a closer examination of the photos, especially photo# 3; It is not Midnight either. The leaves in both cases tell the story. They are not the leaves of leucanthum var. centifolium nor are they of the Aurelian Group X leucanthum centifolium.

So, if it's OK with the moderators, I'd like to go back and edit that portion out of that earlier post. This was a reminder to me of how important it is to include some foliage in the pictures that we submit to moderators for entry to the data base as well.

Link to comment:
http://garden.org/thread/view_...

Good point, Lorn.

Arlene, some color variation of buds or even the flowers on the same stem of Div. VI lilies is pretty common. The weather, especially temperature and the amount of sunlight, plays a big role. I have several hundred Trumpets and Aurelians growing here so I see it all the time. I think it's an interesting feature that adds a nice blend to the garden. Buds are beautiful. I hope to put together a whole album of 'buds only' and post it on this forum after Christmas.

I added a link back to your post about Midnight, Lorn. You don't need to ask us if it is ok to edit but you should always post a new comment to let people know, (like you did) and include a link back to the post you are referring to. Otherwise folks who have already viewed it once won't know about the edit.

Lorn is right about showing us a good photo of the foliage, it is not the same on all lilies! If it is a species I would like to see a photo of the leaves that show the veins.

It is also very helpful, especially for one's first submission of a cultivar photo, to make it one that shows a bloom just opened, face on, showing the stigma uncontaminated by pollen. The stigma is part of the color description of lilies. It is also really helpful to have a photo of the whole plant, or at least the upper part to see how the blooms ore oriented. Once a first photo is accepted, I really don't spend any time researching future image proposals for the same plant.

Leon, I will enter your photos of Altari (confirmed by Jo Ann) and Boogie Woogie (confirmed by Lorn). I didn't think Boogie Woogie would develop such a bright yellow color. I grew it and it was more of a light creamish color and never got a pink edge either.

Regarding those purple OTs: I'll never buy another one (speaking with my wallet here).

Regarding Trebbiano: Has anyone here purchased this from B&D Lilies and if so which version did you get? On their website they show and describe the light colored one. It isn't registered or if it is it isn't published yet.

Connie.There has never been an OT that was as pictured.
Here is my Purple Prince





it hardly looks like this web image

Connie - thank you so much for helping out here. With your knowledge of lilies and telling us what goes into your decision you help all of us. I really appreciate your post.

What would you like to see best in future photo submissions?

I'm just guessing here -

Entire plant
Buds
Leaves
Front view
Profile
Leaves
Bulb
Stamens, filaments, pistil, stigma

Anything else that would help you and help us to take the photos you need?

I've ordered from B & D for many years and yet the majority of my phony colors comes from them. Very disturbing! Sumatra and Paraguay were the most disappointing and the most photoshopped whether the photos were supplied to them or not. In view of those two experiences I wouldn't chance ordering Trebbiano from them.

One more question, Connie. When I read about specific lilies now being referred to as "strains" - is that something you would add or are we supposed to know it when it wasn't shown that way on the site where we ordered. I think it may have been Golden Splendor that I read about as now being called 'Golden Splendor Strain'.

Thanks for all your help, Connie!

pardalinum said:Leon, I will enter your photos of Altari (confirmed by Jo Ann) and Boogie Woogie (confirmed by Lorn). I didn't think Boogie Woogie would develop such a bright yellow color. I grew it and it was more of a light creamish color and never got a pink edge either.

Connie, Thank you. I am not exactly a novice gardener, but have spent years growing lilies, irises and daylilies. With that said it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure our something is wrong when you see the actual plant blooming and what the catalog picture shows. Boogie Woogie is just one of those I questioned. There are some so ugly I gave them away as NOIDs.

I have learned over time to watch which suppliers are trustworthy and dependable for all plants. I also like to compare pictures showing the bloom details such as pollen, anthers, leaves and color. When I see a catalog or website offering something that seems too good to be true, it usually is just that.

I realize I cross posted with Arlene, and her last point is beneficial to all of us.

Again, Thanks!

Arlene: YES on all of those suggestions! By the way, some lilies have fuzzy buds and the presence or lack thereof can be a decision point.

About strains, I think I have already indicated these in the database, for example:

Lily (Lilium Pink Perfection)

Most trumpet lilies are from seed grown strains and will show variation. B&D lists a certain group as being "extinct" due to the original seed parents being lost in a flood. These are Pink Perfection, Copper King, Golden Splendor, Black Dragon, Moonlight, and Green Magic. So the ones on today's market are not from the original strain. For people here who have bought multiple bulbs of a particular strain, photo them all as they can be different. I don't need this for identification but it will show readers here how they can differ.

We can all be on the lookout for fuzzy buds come lily time. Good point!

Thanks for the explanation on the strains.

We all really appreciate your help, Connie.

Leon: Around the mid 90's I did have a Boogie Woogie that did have very lightly pinkish edges and was what I'd call cream or vanilla based but I haven't seen that one offered in years. Mine was in only very early and very late sun so that may be why the edge showed up on mine...or dumb luck.

See Lily (Lilium 'Boogie Woogie') additional comments on Boogie Woogie.

Thanks, Lorn.

Lorn - Just read your comments - very interesting and a good test.

Thanks Arlene. You know, I think it's always a good idea to check the data base first before buying any kind; if nothing else just to see how it looks in someone else's garden, often times with somewhat different soils and climate and growing conditions other than your own. The slight differences in color from one location to the next always have fascinated me.

Edit Added: While we're on the subject of deceiving colors, I see B&D has Purple Prince listed in their 2014 Spring catalog WITH A PICTURE OF THEIR OWN which looks like Purple Prince. Finally!

Roosterlorn said:See Lily (Lilium 'Boogie Woogie') additional comments on Boogie Woogie.

Very helpful & realistic. Now I don't feel like I'm the only one with the color variations. Thanks for posting.

We are in total agreement, Lorn. Sometimes we want so much to believe a site or a company that we neglect to check the database and, when it's a new introduction, there are no photos of the lily in actual gardens. Therein lies the problem.

'Tis the season of miracles! I'm so glad they updated to reflect the truer color but look at the leaves with their very odd color - it's still not reality.

Among my old photos I did find the old ad for a selection of lilies. I can figure out most of them but which is the purple one?

The 'purple' one is a really dark example of Pink Perfection, but a very poor photograph of it. Remember now, Pink Perfection is a strain so the color intensity will vary from dark, dark pink to very light pink. So if you bought 5 of these from the same source, they would each be a little different color. Strains are often planted in groups of 3 or 5 because the color variation makes for a nice blended setting. It would be nice if all the growers would market Pink Perfection showing them as a representative group rather than just a single example.

Others shown are, top left: a very fine example of Regale (strain). Again there will be variation of lighter to darker chocolate rose reverses. Lower left is a somewhat poor example of Golden Splendor (strain). Middle bottom is African Queen, (strain and clone available) another environmentally sensitive cultivar that can show different color intensity, both face and reverse. Lower right is Regale Album (strain). Photo is pretty much representative of this beautiful white lily and there is very little color variation even though it's a strain.

Thanks so much, Lorn. I had most of them figured out but the Pink Perfection (their version) had me puzzled. I knew PP was one of the group at the time but the color just seemed much too unbelievable to me.