pH is much less important than it may seem from what one reads. Ericaceous plants are the main group of alpine-ish subjects that dislike lime. The majority of plants are quite indifferent to pH.

Thanks, Lori.

I thought maybe I'd need to pay particular attention to which iris I'd choose if the bed is pretty limey, but maybe most of those that dislike lime are the water-loving varieties anyway.

Okay. So, the plan that's forming for me is to gather and pile field stone, since I have an abundance of it free for the carting and hauling of it, for height; bring in a small load at a time of flat shale (or whatever this flat-ish stone is we've been using around here) for plant sandwiches, and then fill in and around all of it with pea gravel, crushed limestone or granite, and sand.

No compost? Or, would I add some compost only to pockets of plants that want rich soil? I think I've noticed that a few of my choices do call for a rich soil.

This is so exciting now that firmer plans are coming down.
Take pictures.I will surely benefit all of us.

Heh-heh. Right about now I'm wondering just how frozen together those field stone rocks will be. There's just enough snow that sledding them into the yard shouldn't be too difficult, yet not so much that I won't be able to find them...(I think ).

Let's see...will a shovel do it, or will I need a pickaxe? Still, now has to be better than waiting for the slippery and sticky mud season.

Pictures might add a comedic element to the entire affair, Jo Ann.

Some of the best Marx Brothers Moments happen in a garden.

Hey Chelle,
yeah, you're definitely overthinking it for an iris--

growitall is right--that the majority of plants are quite indifferent to pH.

I will add--as long as it is not too extreme.

In my case, my soil was formed principally from alkaline parent materials (lime) a looooong time ago plus hundreds? thousands? of years of low rainfall. So we have high pH around here (mine is 8 to 8.3 or even higher--related to the amount of buried concrete I find). Our water is also very alkaline. This essentially ties up nutrients, especially iron, in the soil and we can have a tough time with even the supposedly 'alkaline-tolerant' plants. Ever seen a chlorotic siberian elm? Well, the sagebrush does alright but I have no business trying to grow blueberries.

Rocks do contribute to the mineral and acidity-alkalinity milieu (but I find concrete to be the worst offender in exacerbating my pH problems) --you shouldn't have any trouble with field stone or whatever your flat stone is, and your area may actually be naturally acidic enough that crushed limestone could be the way to go for the western plants on your list.

Try some areas with (a little) and without compost--see what works for you.

Thanks, Dirtdorphins.

Our soil is acidic enough that lime is applied to crop fields, so I'll definitely not shy away from using it. Crushed limestone is readily available here, and it's what we use for our drive, so that's also a definite plus. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, an area near the house was mulched with it and that's where the Aethionema schistosum, Edraianthus tenuifolius, dianthus and chicory are already doing very well.

dirtdorphins said:So we have high pH around here (mine is 8 to 8.3 or even higher-...). Our water is also very alkaline.

Same here. I wouldn't say it's caused many real problems in growing plants here though (excluding those that specifically need low pH, e.g. ericaceous plants, as said), other than early-season chlorosis in rugosa roses. I'd say the dryness of the climate... and my reluctance to coddle plants that need a lot of water, or create special environments for them... have been the main drawbacks to what I can grow successfully here, even a greater limitation for the things I want to grow than the fact that this is zone 3. In my experience, it's been worth just giving it a try to grow the plant of interest, ignoring the "popular wisdom" about it, whether that be about zone hardiness or the narrow range of "required" conditions that one often sees ascribed to various plants. Plants are often amazingly adaptable, and also, the written info about them is often limited in scope and includes many untested assumptions. Actually, once you get into alpine plants, you'll find the information about them is often very limited - which is good in its own way, in that there is nothing there to discourage you!

Lori: I am on your page. If a plant needs constant coddling it just dies out here. I try not to buy special needs plants but sometimes they creep in and die out.

Happy New Year

One of the first things I planted when I arrived here was lilies--oriental and OT hybrids--because I love them. I did nothing other than plant them, since they grew like weeds where I came from in the midwest.
I had no idea they would have such a hard time here. (The OTs survived; the orientals did not, nor did their replacements--despite subsequent coddling in a fruitless attempt to satisfy them as perennials ...I surrendered and quit buying and torturing orientals...although...I might ? try just once more in a seriously amended new area, maybe... I miss them.)

anyway--
I had severe chlorosis of many plants when I started and I only had one technically ericaceous plant in the bunch. It is still alive, btw.
But I didn't know what chlorosis was, then,...and to make matters worse, I over watered and killed several in the soggy clay... and learned a lot about gardening with the 'wrong plants', the wrong way, in this place...
I tried more appropriate plants. I did soil amendments by-the-bag for a few years, but then I begged my honey to put sides and a tarp in the motorcycle trailer so that we could haul in more affordable volumes of grit, sand, and compost.
So, like I said previously, in the areas where we have labored intently (thanks honey) to doctor the dirt, things work out pretty well. I still grow more than a few 'inappropriate' plants. And I am expanding my appreciation for the plethora of cute and/or edible 'weeds' more suitable for this environment, all the time.

We still have many unassisted areas though--great banks of non-flowering, chlorotic lilacs and weed trees, for example, not very attractive.
You would think that the lilacs and weed trees, being what they are--supposedly lime-loving--and having survived here longer than me would be thrilled with just a little water for a change. But no, they need iron, and copious amounts of it. So, now, I am working on clearing out the hungry thickets a bit at a time...going with fruit trees, because as long as I am going to feed them, they are going to feed me, too
Sorry--has nothing to do with DIY rock gardens--except for maybe all the rock and concrete that is my 'soil' in this case, which I recycle back into the rock gardens

I have hard clay soil and my lilac is doing well. True, I have amended, and at the time, I think I just "amended the hole". It is a white lilac, "Madame Lemoine". I never "feed" it, though I have dug around it for other plants. Does your lilac get full sun? Mine gets a bit more than a half day, but intense sun during the summer. I do not have the room for more lilacs. This one produces more plants under the soil line, (suckers?), so I have to dig them out and give them away from time to time.

I cut it back every other year, so it does not get too tall. Some years I just get a few blooms, and other years there are many. I may have forgotten and cut back every year some years.

The lilacs are all very old, came with the house.
I'm saving a few--thinned out/cut back etc. They get sun, they bloom and have greened up considerably with amendments.
The others are/were buried in tree-of-heaven, siberian elm, and chokecherry thickets. It is/was a mess. They don't get enough sun. The prunus and ailiathus don't suffer from chlorosis, too much, but the elms and lilacs do/did rather severely.
Odd tense on account of the fact that we cut down/ripped out the entire west side of this mess this fall.

It sounds as though you have quite a bit more work ahead of you! Those "Trees of Heaven" aren't exactly "heavenly", are they? I do not envy you!

Oh they are hellacious for sure! Quite putrid smelling in bloom, too. Cutting them down only encourages their rampant and expansive regrowth and they laugh at poison. I rented a backhoe and got out as much as I could without taking my fence down.
And yes, much more reclamation work to go...ugh

I have been enjoying your discussion on Rock Gardens. I have two of them, well mine are more of a rock pile than a rock garden. Mine have huge boulders in them. They both started out by our getting some very large rocks from the neighbors property with the idea of using them in a future pond project. At this point I am not sure they will ever be used that way but we are enjoying them just piled up at the edges of our property. One is in the back yard near a small pond and bird bath. I have found it is a great spot to put some of my tropical plants for the summer. Some are planted in the ground others just sit in their pots well disguised by the rocks. I don't want to plant too many perennials in there as the possibility of moving the rocks at some point is still viable. I do have a couple of peony bushes planted towards the front and a lot of self seeding Perilla. Then I put in a White Bird of Paradise, large Schefflera and Dracaena and plant several Castor Beans.

The second one is much the same, very large boulders that were piled up out front at the other end of a long juniper hedge. I don't expect these to ever be moved, so I have no qualms about what I plant there. I have several different types of ornamental grass, a Crepe Myrtle and a Hollywood Juniper plus a few annuals.

Beautiful arrangements among the rocks Holly.

Love everybody's giant rocks! Very inspiring pictures from all - thanks.

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I was busy admiring your rocks and tropical thing going on and missed the tile--until I saw it in the other thread--NICE!!

This is an excellent discussion thread, beautifully and precisely on topic and chock full of useful info. Thank you all!