Farming forum: Timber farmers

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Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
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901Bertwood
Dec 26, 2013 3:26 PM CST
Hello, anyone out there have land in timber? I am trying to find out if and how to invest in timber land.

Bert
Bert
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Dec 27, 2013 2:52 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

I have 90 acres with about 60 of those acres in timber. It is mixed among various hardwoods and some pines. I've had a few people come out and give me quotes for harvesting it but I've never actually done it. Here in East Texas, timber farming is big business.
Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
Image
901Bertwood
Dec 27, 2013 4:02 PM CST
Hello, my husbands family is from Jacksonville, Tx! Timothy Lee Wood, I believe that his fathers name was Dallas or Darrell, but I never met them, only a uncle Rufus Waites. His mother Louise Waites Wood died about 10-15 years ago. They are who I got this idea from, and traveling through the piney woods of east tx when I was in school at Lamar University. I have some hilly land in NE Ms near Corinth and a lot of logging was done about 10 years ago. I don't have any idea how to get the props and cons of this idea processed, no go to person per se. I have seen plantations of walnut and I am thinking that since I only have six acres that that may be an option instead of pine. One grows slow and one fast?

Thx for your insite, Bert
Bert
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Dec 27, 2013 4:31 PM CST
We had a small wooded acreage that the timber folk were interested in harvesting, but we convinced them to just buy the land with the trees. I think you would need quite a large property to make timber farming viable.
Porkpal
Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
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901Bertwood
Dec 27, 2013 5:22 PM CST
Thx for input pork pal, you are also from Texas. I can see the long term time frame, but I don't expect harvest in my lifetime so I'm thinking it is not a taxable value added to the land. Or is the tax a different consideration since it would be listed as farm land instead of undeveloped acreage?

Bert
Bert
Name: Jennifer
48036 MI (Zone 6b)
Cottage Gardener Houseplants Spiders! Heucheras Frogs and Toads Dahlias
Hummingbirder Sedums Winter Sowing Peonies Region: Michigan Garden Ideas: Level 2
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jvdubb
Dec 27, 2013 7:00 PM CST
My friends sold several mamoth trees from their wooded acreage. The company that harvested it brought in draft horses to pull the cut trees out because equipment would not fit. It was really something cool to see.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Dec 27, 2013 8:13 PM CST
In my county there are different minimum acreages required for land to be considered agricultural for tax purposes. Each county has its own rules. I have no clue how timber would be evaluated in your county. Here six acres of trees would probably be valued as a residential lot without regard to agricultural use.
Porkpal
Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
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901Bertwood
Dec 27, 2013 8:29 PM CST
So I think I'm off to see the county extension agent, are there other considerations I need to work out? There is a 58 acre farm for sale next to mine, a stream in wet weather but our dirt is red clay and hilly. I've been playing with buying and planting pine. My brother thinks I can get the pine seedlings free from the agent? Where does he get this? Also he thinks either the VA or the Small Business Admin will give me a loan like starting a business? Any thoughts?

Bert
Bert
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Dec 27, 2013 9:34 PM CST
Good luck! The county extension service is definitely the place to start.
Porkpal
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Dec 28, 2013 8:31 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Roberta, I'll tell you what I'd do. Since you're looking for local info, I'd go to the local feed store. Go inside and find the guy with a cowboy hat and approach him and tell him what I'm wanting to do and ask his advice. You'd be amazed at how connected the locals at the feedstore are. They will know everything about your specific location.

Or the local hardware store. In that case, find the guy with overalls on. Smiling
[Last edited by dave - Dec 28, 2013 8:32 AM (+)]
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Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
Image
901Bertwood
Dec 28, 2013 11:44 AM CST
Good morning, great ideas Dave! Do you think I need to take a man with me too, they may not spill the beans you know with the 'little lady'? I'm thinking I'll give them a good laugh, so I need to know somewhat what I am talking about.
I just got back from the VA rep in Corinth, she said no one has asked about this to her knowledge, so VA money may be out. But she is researching types of loans for me. I should have thought about the feed store idea, because there is a lumber mill right behind it. We'll it's for my next trip, it's two hours driving from Memphis, where I live.

Bert
Bert
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Dec 28, 2013 12:54 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

I think locals tend to be more patient with women than men. Good luck!
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Jan 2, 2014 6:10 PM CST
A few years ago, I read anything I could about forestry and logging. Almost every word was bemoaning how tight the profit margins are (lots of land, low prices for timber).

For every paragraph about the best way to do something, there would be 3-6 paragraphs about how no small landowner can afford the best practices, and here are all the drawbacks of bad practices ....

Selective harvesting requires skilled labor and goes slowly, and you don't harvest much at any one time.

What I read made it sound like labor costs exceeded the price of harvested wood unless you had a big, flat tree farm most of which could be accessed by big machines from a few roads.

Even then, cutting fast-growing softwoods pretty young for pulp, or small trees for veneer and chips, seem to be the new business model.

Clear-cutting ares small enough to re-seed from surroundings was smart, but then you needed a property 5-20 times bigger than one harvest-able patch. And you still need to bring in the equipment to do it, and drag the logs out ...

The one that was scariest to me was the temptation to let someone come in and take your best trees, I think that's called "highgrading". What's left won't even reseed salable trees and you have no value left.

But I don't really know anything about it except for a few books that did a lot of complaining. There must be some way to make timber pay, or we wouldn't have any lumber mills.

My fantasy was to have a woodlot that I could improve by removing undesirable species and poorly-shaped trees (and burn those for heat, or maybe use them to improve the soil via hugelculture), Then (In my fantasy), I would re-plant with more valuable trees or white birch, just because I like white birch.

However, that's a project to be scheduled in decades, not years.
Name: Roberta
Cherokee Village, Ark (Zone 7a)
Region: Tennessee Orchids Irises
Image
901Bertwood
Jan 2, 2014 7:31 PM CST
Hi Rick, I decided not to purchase the hilly 58 acres because I had a chance to talk to the 'old timers' in my area of Ms, and several of them were telling just like you mentioned.in fact they all said they should have gotten them up a mule team and could have retired by now! One area that was a money maker was premium Walnut veneers, but it was for an educated management team out of East Ark bottom lands, yes flat because they were doing selective harvesting per order. We'll I'll lay this brilliant idea to rest. I just have some land out a ways from Corinth, Ms but not enough to farm, only six acres.
Bert
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Jan 2, 2014 8:33 PM CST
>> Walnut veneers ... doing selective harvesting per order.

Wow! Designer trees. I guess that would put a premium value on your product.

"Hilly" does make it sound like a challenge to harvest. I saw one TV show that talked about selective harvesting in difficult and fragile forest terrain, using helicopters to extract single trees.

If those books were accurate, the helicopter would have burned enough fuel to use up five years of profit before hooking the first tree.

Maybe something with dual-use ... ski slopes ...

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