I second Mary Ann, Marvin. I have not been on this site for very long but the folks here are a kind and knowledgeable group of people who are willing to share their expertise and put up with my blunders. lol I am really happy to talk iris and this is the place to do that. I am particularly paying attention to this thread as I have been trying to buy a 'black' iris for years. I know all black irises are just very dark colors but all that I have bought have yet to show really dark colors. I have given most of them away in frustration. I stand in the yard and give them a good talking to and then pot them up 'to go' if that's the best that they can do. I kept Men In Black for its mustard/brown beard. Ah well, just have to buy more, wont I? smiles

Do you grow medians, Bonnie? If so, Keith Keppel's 'Dark Matter' is about as close to black as I have seen. The style arms are dark purple, but the standards and falls are very close to black. It's a Standard Dwarf, though.

We median nuts do 'black' as well. IB Midsummer Night's Dream is great. As shown above Keith Keppel had some nice ones.

As to the tall bearded 'Before the Storm' survived under a 4" block of ice here. Not as wide & ruffly as sum, but that can be fixed. I'm glad to see a person who hybridizes hardy irises active as we have lost some of those people. I do DG as well, but under a different name (irisMA).

Yes, Kent, I do grow medians. I love the SDB's. I have Devils Night on my summer order list. I will add Dark Matter to that list also. Thank you for the recommendation. I know a particular iris may appear to have slightly different traits grown in various climes and soils but it is always good to get an opinion from someone who grows them as opposed to catalog jargon.

Lucy, I will add Midsummer Night's Dream to my list also. I do not have any real dark colors in my IB's. Thank you.

Marvin glad I could help I don't have any info on it other than a seedling # it was 24Q-B I know it was one of Barry's and I found it growing at Kieth's in 2012 that is where the picture came from, I don't know if he still has it but maybe a email to one of them may help with parentage info. I am sure they will remember that one nothing else like it at least not that black anyway if not feel free to copy the picture and send it that ought to help refresh there memory if the seedling # does not .I wish you luck with the project and hope to open my Rockytop catalog in the future and find a solid black Plicata I agree very nice people here on ATP and I enjoy using the database to look up info on plants it is by far the easiest to use and seems to be getting better all the time. The feature where you can click on all the children a plant has produced is Awesome it helps when your trying to do research for a project like this.

I just realized I referred to 'Epicenter' in my original post as a parent of my 'Old Renegade' and that is incorrect. The actual pollen parent is 'Select Circle' (Ghio). So I went to the database to refresh my memory and saw that the one and only photo entry is not accurate. It looks as if the image is one of those from BlueJiris that Calif_Sue has posted several of and could be maybe 'Stepping Out ' or something of that nature. I am new and don't have an idea on how to correct that and I certainly don't want to seem presumptuous or mean or know it all. But, 'Select Circle' is essentially just a bit lighter version of 'Old Renegade' in appearance and is from the blackish/red side. I hope I am not getting in trouble here.

thanks Brad for the extra info. I will pursue that and see what comes of it.

You are totally not getting into trouble! It's important to every one of us at ATP Irises that the database here is the biggest and the best. And accuracy is critical to that end. I would suggest that you tree-mail the administrators and tell them of the problem. Actually -- since Kent is a reader here, you virtually have because he is an administrator to the Iris database.

diggit said:I just realized I referred to 'Epicenter' in my original post as a parent of my 'Old Renegade' and that is incorrect. The actual pollen parent is 'Select Circle' (Ghio). So I went to the database to refresh my memory and saw that the one and only photo entry is not accurate. It looks as if the image is one of those from BlueJiris that Calif_Sue has posted several of and could be maybe 'Stepping Out ' or something of that nature. I am new and don't have an idea on how to correct that and I certainly don't want to seem presumptuous or mean or know it all. But, 'Select Circle' is essentially just a bit lighter version of 'Old Renegade' in appearance and is from the blackish/red side. I hope I am not getting in trouble here.

Taken care of, Marvin. I'm always on the lookout for errors in the database to be fixed so appreciate the heads up.

If a picture is wrong, anybody can propose that it be deleted. Just click on the picture and you'll see a list of hyperlinks at the bottom of its page including one that says "Propose this image be deleted" Click on that and provide a brief explanation why the picture should deleted and one of the admins will decide whether to approve the deletion or not. One note, all of the admins are pretty reluctant to willy nilly delete members' pictures so it needs to be clearly wrong (as in this case) before they'll do it. Also, if you happen to know the correct ID, you can propose to move the picture to that entry.

thanks Kent. I just did not want to offend anyone like I had superior knowledge or something.

Sue added around 4,000 images to the database from the Blue J catalog. The vast majority are correct, but there are a few that aren't. When I first found some that were incorrect, I would contact her to ask if it was OK to delete them, but she told me to feel free to do whatever needed to be done with the Blue J images. So there isn't really any worries about offending her. Now, if it's a member's own picture, that's a different matter. I usually start by contacting them by Tree Mail and asking how certain they are of the ID and then see where the conversation goes.

......and as for superior knowledge.....everyone on this site has superior knowledge compared to me. I am taking advantage of it and they are enabling me! I guess knowledge is relative but this bunch is kind and loves to share their knowledge. I really appreciate that.

Finally found a moment to go thru my books and find the seedling number for the dark sdlg. we're talking about here. Surprise, surprise. 'Select Circle' was the pod parent.

K1-25-6A

Select Circle X ((Before the Storm x (Navy Strut x Adventuress))

Anyway thanks for the suggestions and it turns out Midnight Oil is not a bad idea as one poster mentioned. It has plicata in it's background. Doing a little further research I found another likely candidate in 'Obsidian' (Marky Smith). Has some of the same background as 'Storm Track'. Now we are making progress.

How about these three from Griff Crump?

Stealth Fighter
Haunting
Night Bird

The first two have RE abilities!

How about Thomas Johnson's new 2014 introduction "Midnight Velvet"? That is a pretty dark plicata!

thanks Greg. I saw that and was immediately impressed with the evolution of the dark plics that we are seeing. I am hoping to take this even farther by blending in some dark from the reddish black side or brownish if you prefer. I am seeing some dark brown in some of the things being done now such as 'Total Darkness' (Jedlicka). I am thinking maybe if I could blend some of that in to take the purple out of the typical dark plic. hmmmmm............mind wanders. where's that red beard?

Not sure if plic breeder sneak another color with a red bread in there. Have you looked for yellow glaciates & see if you could use those?