Daylilies forum: wondering which Daylilies make the biggest clumps?

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Fishbayte
Jan 26, 2014 10:39 AM CST
We are on a mission (my sisters' idea)...wanting to know which dayliles make the biggest clumps the FASTEST? My sister wants to mass produce some daylilies...she heard the tubers can be used like water chestnuts in stir frys, and she wants to grow for that purpose. She doesn't care what type of daylily, as long as it is a very fast grower...I was thinking maybe older spider dips...but...dont really know...any suggestions?
I'm all ears!
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
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shive1
Jan 26, 2014 11:29 AM CST
Ditch lilies and older dormant dips.

Fishbayte
Jan 26, 2014 11:45 AM CST
any SPECIFIC varieties? Just dont want to put anything wild in the garden...
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Jan 26, 2014 11:47 AM CST
Try reading this http://garden.org/ideas/view/Sharon/985/Daylilies-for-Dinner...

From what I understand you DO NOT want to eat just any daylily so pleas read up on what types are edible.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
Name: Betty
MN zone 4
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daylilydreams
Jan 26, 2014 12:00 PM CST
I agree I agree
If you want to be happy for a lifetime plant a garden!
Faith is the postage stamp on our prayers!
Betty MN Zone4 AHS member


Fishbayte
Jan 26, 2014 1:43 PM CST
read the articles...yes, good info for sure. SO...other then newer varieties have not been tested for nutritional values...I would assume they are NOT toxic? Anyone know for sure? I would assume dips would be OK....maybe tets if not new conversions maybe...dont really know...anyone? Thinking a good way to use up those seedlings that just are not worth keeping in the garden...veggies!
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 26, 2014 2:04 PM CST
I would not recommend eating tuberous roots of any daylily. Like some other plants daylilies can contain a poison in their roots. It is not confidently known which ones are safe (if any) and under what circumstances the roots are poisonous and under what circumstances they might be safe.

The situation with daylily roots/tubers is that one might be able to eat them safely a hundred times and then on the 101st time the roots are poisonous. It is possible to die.

The older name for the toxin was hemerocallin; the newer name is stypandrol.

Structure and distribution of a neurotoxic principle, hemerocallin. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942200...
A quote from the introduction to this research:
"The roots of Hemerocallis species (daylilies) ingested by goats, sheep and cattle, and used for the treatment of schistosomiasis (snail fever) in humans, have caused
fatalities in the People’s Republic of China."

Stypandrol, a Toxic Binaphthalenetetrol Isolated from Stypandra imbricata http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/CH9851233.htm

Preparation and Crystal Structure of Acetyl Hemerocallin and Structural Revision of Hemerocallin https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257680757_Preparati...
Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Jan 26, 2014 2:27 PM (+)]
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Jan 27, 2014 4:00 AM CST
I don't think I would eat any daylily root, all the stuff they have been sprayed can not be good for you.
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
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chalyse
Jan 27, 2014 6:18 AM CST
Do we know if the toxic element may also be true of every part of a daylily, including buds and blossoms?

I think those are also widely recommendation for growing and eating (http://www.greenishthumb.net/2010/02/growing-buying-cooking-...).

Just asking in case she is still curious and seeks those additional items out (buds and flowers) thinking they might not be the same as the potentially deadly roots and tubers, and possibly hoping to grow organically and handle like other garden produce...
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

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[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 27, 2014 1:18 PM (+)]
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Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
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philljm
Jan 27, 2014 6:44 AM CST
Yeah, I was hoping ADMMAD would comment. I felt kind of nervousness about the "eating" comment
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 27, 2014 7:13 AM CST
Both the roots and the flower/buds have been used in Asia - the roots medicinally and the buds/flowers for food items. Daylilies are grown as an agricultural/commercial crop for their buds/flowers in Asia.

I have not seen any research reports that indicate that eating the buds/flowers has caused problems. None of the research that looks at the toxin in the roots has mentioned toxin present in other parts of the daylily.

Before I knew about the toxin I ate the flower buds twice. After I learned that there was a toxin in the roots I decided that the buds/flowers were not a food that I had any desire to eat simply to be on the safe side.

The same toxin is present in plant species closely related to daylilies. In those species the toxin has been found in the leaves. Also in those species it is sometimes present and sometimes absent.
Maurice
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
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chalyse
Jan 27, 2014 11:16 AM CST
Indeed - since the plant grows from the tubers and roots, it would seem quite possible that a toxin from the source material could be found in other parts of the plant that grow out from it. I've shied away from trying any flower parts at all simply because there is so much confusion (and no regulation) about what cultivars are safe to use or in which ways. Hearing that similar species do show a tendency for toxins to sometimes exist in their leaves is very helpful cautionary information.

Water chestnuts, it sounds like, are easy to grow inside or outside in containers, so those might make great companion plants to a group of nice potted ornamental daylilies. Even with water chestnuts, however, it sounds like there are often-confused species that are invasive weeds, noxious, and should be very carefully avoided (see third link):

http://homeandgarden.sinitem.com/garden/how-to-grow-organic-...

http://www.ehow.com/how_8665201_harvest-water-chestnuts.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_7576427_buy-water-chestnut-plants.ht...
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 27, 2014 12:29 PM (+)]
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Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Jan 28, 2014 8:35 AM CST
Fishbayte, the fastest I have are : Crimson Pirate, South Seas, Elizabeth Salter, Strutter's Ball, Ron Wilson's Online Garden Party, Woodside Ruby, Apricot Sparkles, August Flame, Hint Of Blue, Elegant Candy, Carmine Monarch, On And On, Blackeyed Stella, Fooled Me, Frans Hals, Persian Ruby, Bridgeton Ivy League and Mardi Gras Parade.
Most of these are very inexpensive.
robinseeds.com
Name: Gerry Donahue
Pleasant Lake, IN (Zone 5b)
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profesora
Jan 28, 2014 8:50 AM CST
Mike, I would like to grow Genesta for its branching. If you stil have it, please consider a trade.
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
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Hazelcrestmikeb
Jan 28, 2014 9:00 AM CST
Gerry, let's do it.
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Jan 28, 2014 9:01 AM CST
My fastest growing daylilies are the older and inexpensive ones too: Pandora's Box, Double Pom Pom, Frans Hal, Howdy, Serena Dark Horse, Pastel Classic, Avante Garde, Lady Neva, Rococo, Dallas Star, Big Smile.
Lighthouse Gardens

Fishbayte
Jan 28, 2014 11:04 AM CST
Regarding EATING of daylilies....

My mother got onto the flowers, battered and deep fried...decades ago...Probably she read it in Organic Gardening or something like that (she has no original ideas)...she ate them for years...and is still alive...I ate them a few times and am still here.

I know that they sell dried daylily flowers in the Chinese markets by the bag for use in stir fry...a very nice older chinese lady I know has cooked with them her entire life...buys the bags at the local stores in bigger cities in British Columbia Canada...

...so the eating the flowers theory I would say is...FINE

As for the possible toxins from one part of the plant to the other... many people eat rhubarb...the stalks are eaten, the leaves and roots are poisonous, yet almost everyone eats rhubarb....There are many other "food plants" with similar toxic parts, that are eaten on a regular basis...just saying....


Now back to my request about biggest clump makers... THANK YOU for those suggestions! I will check them out and see what I can find... Just don't want "ditch lilies" in my garden, prefer a better plant! Although I can find ditch lilies almost anywhere...


Thank you all for your help/suggestions/concerns...I am always open to learning pros and cons of almost anything ! Smiling I'm all ears!

Forgot to add...we only do 'natural' gardening...no pesticides or chemicals in our gardens....so wont have any residue in our plants....in case anyone is concerned...
[Last edited by Fishbayte - Jan 28, 2014 11:13 AM (+)]
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Jan 28, 2014 11:57 AM CST
I have ate daylily tubers with no ill effect. They taste like potatoes.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
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chalyse
Jan 28, 2014 10:33 PM CST
I do respect everyone's experience and the right to decide for one's self, but do hope that you will do your own research, and take any possible ill effects seriously if anyone has them after eating - some research does seem to indicate that there may be some toxins, and potential health effects, from eating daylily parts. It does seem that you really could eat some of the daylily products for an entire lifetime and not have any problem, but that toxicity can and does crop up without warning. In their region of origin, Asia, daylilies are eaten more frequently than in the West, and research there still appears to claim that there may be serious toxins, for example, even in the daylily flower. However, there are also further posts below that will help to explore and open up that research to more questioning. So, the rest of this particular post will be couched in more tentative terms (with regard just to daylily flowers) and is only a caution of them that you can sort out to your own level of trust.

Regarding rhubarb leaves, they were also originally thought to be harmless, until the Army began using them to feed troops in WWI. Only after they became more widely consumed in that way did they then realize toxins were causing problems and deaths. Likewise, potatoes can be toxic, if green or sprouting tubers are not handled or cooked correctly. The same may be true for the daylily as it is for wild mushrooms, or uncooked meats, and so forth.

Daylily flowers, it has been claimed in the East, may have naturally occurring Colchicine in them and:

"Colchicine poisoning is an uncommon,
but potentially life-threatening toxicological emergency that has
the potential to cause multisystem organ failure." -- see the second link, below

These purported Colchicines in daylily flowers (which would, seemingly, include all daylilies, not just tetraploids - and including older species daylilies) have been said to be a naturally occurring chemical in the flowers that are used in culinary dishes. This has prompted some researchers there to look for safe cooking techniques and handling recommendations, especially for home cooks, in order to reduce potential problems that may occur.

Two easy to read articles about those daylily food-handling techniques and health safety guidelines are at:
http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/beware-of-the-na...
http://world-food.net/download/journals/2013-issue_3&4/2013-...)

So, it may be wise to keep some caution and guidelines in mind, just as we all would with rhubarb, potatoes, wild mushrooms, and undercooked meats:

1) Hybrid daylilies (daylilies called by common, non-latin names, like Happy Returns, etc) may be better plants for viewing, but they have never been recommended for eating - only older species with latin names have been said to be edible (see Tink3472's post and link above). And, species plants were imported from Asia, so they would likely still have the same composition as those that some research indicates may possibly contain toxins (and be the cause of some problems);
2) Daylily roots/tubers (and possibly leaves) can contain toxins that, even after eating them over a long time with no side-effects, can still result in poisoning, since it is not possible to easily know when, or under what conditions, the toxins will be present (see Admmad's posts and links above) and;
3) Per the Asian research (linked above) daylily flowerd should be handled with care. The links go to articles describe blanching and rinsing techniques (the first link), and safe storage, pickling and blanching times/temps needed to process raw daylilies as reported by the 2013 paper (the second link), from research that was done in an effort to address health problems believed to be occurring in Asia. They note that possible daylily flower toxins may actually increase at some temperatures used in food storage and preparation (39-86 degrees fahrenheit). Time-trial tests with commercial (forced-)air drying ovens (different than our home ovens) reduced their measurement of toxins by less than 50%, and home baking ovens were not recommended or reported in the study.
4) Medical centers may not be aware of possible daylily toxins (accepted or questioned) if presented with a patient's gastrointestinal symptoms, or the potentially more critical and acute conditions that might rapidly unfold, perhaps especially since daylilies are so infrequently used as a food source in the US. Consider printing out and bringing the noted and linked findings if a bad reaction follows after deciding to eat daylily parts.

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Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Jan 29, 2014 11:04 PM (+)]
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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Jan 29, 2014 6:05 AM CST
Only tried them once about 10 years ago. Don't plan on eating any more. They were not that good.
Lighthouse Gardens

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