Daylilies forum: "Garden" daylilies

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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 14, 2014 7:21 AM CST
I noticed in several posts mentions of "Garden" daylilies, or performance of "Garden" daylilies. tink3472 , mentioned in a post that she got rid of her "Garden" daylilies when she had to move.
Soooo... being I have daylilies in my garden, what determines a "Garden" daylily from a???... not garden daylily?
I do actually seem to prefer the simpler (not just plain) daylily forms and colors, and performance (not fading, strong scapes, disease resistance) that type of thing is more important to me than some of the shall we say "more advanced" daylily hybrids. I know for many this has been covered before, but would you mind new suggestions (and old) of the best "Garden" daylilies, and what determines that characterization.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Mar 14, 2014 8:14 AM CST
Not sure myself either what a garden daylily is.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Mar 14, 2014 8:47 AM CST
I'm a big fan of "older" daylilies, too, and for much the same reason - their sheer vigor, when it is present, is astounding. But, there are weaknesses and drawbacks through all stages of DL development right from species forms and onward.

Garden daylilies, I think, is a term often used to reference Species and Heirloom daylilies - those that are less removed from the "wild" ancestral line/s. Even back then, there are some that are noted as being more or less good performers, and are more or less suited to today's gardening needs and widespread growing conditions.

Hemerocallis dumortieri, for example, has been noted as being susceptible to rust, and it may be that some of our modern DLs have inherited similar genes that originated even farther back than dumortieri.



On the other hand, Hemerocallis citrina is noted as being resistant to rust, and likewise, many modern DLs may have inherited its strengths:



Some of the older forms can also be very "vigorous" or even "invasive," sending their roots far and wide (killing off other desirable garden plants) and proliferating so quickly and persistently that many home growers would find them unsuitable. AHS maintains this bulletin about the differences that indicate "invasiveness" in DLs, using Hermocallis fulva as example: http://www.daylilies.org/AHSinforeleaseinvasives.pdf

Fulva, noted as both invasive and susceptible to rust:



Other than that, it becomes much more complex and subjective to identify "recommended" cultivars. So, it can help to define, for yourself and for others, what attributes are important to you. The more characteristics you find and describe that are important to you, the easier it is to identify cultivars. Ruffles? Complex patterns or edges? Lotsa blooms or more time blooming in a season?

Selecting and describing goals, even very specific attribute goals, for the DLs you'd enjoy having in your garden is a sure way to maximize the chances for others to call up recommendations that may astound and please you for many years to come. Thumbs up
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Mar 14, 2014 7:20 PM (+)]
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Name: Jill
Weatherby, Missouri (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Pollen collector Plant and/or Seed Trader Farmer Daylilies
Irises Region: Missouri Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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Dayjillymo
Mar 14, 2014 8:49 AM CST
You've hit up on the great divide between gardeners and hybridizers. Hybridizers generally want the latest, greatest, most expensive to create newer latest, greatest. Many times the latest greatest may not be "garden tested" in that no one knows how they perform in a wide variety of locations.

Garden varieties have stood the test of time and have proven themselves hardy and worthy in a garden setting in a wide variety of locations. Most of the "garden varieties" were once latest,greatest and many are award winning cultivars. The daylilies in your gardens that you love and enjoy have earned their right to be in your garden. Newest, latest, greatest cultivars have not yet earned that right, but they are tempting! Whistling
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Mar 14, 2014 8:59 AM CST
I agree there is often a great divide, and it is disappointing that the pursuit of commerce and accolades sometimes escalates the use-and-misuse of cultivars to the point that new hybrids can be widely bred from ones that should have been left behind in favor of better suited choices long ago.

Thankfully, in addition to garden testing, the study of parentage and lineages can help to identify wonderful cultivars to choose from out of a full array of older to cutting-edge newer ones. Since I've yet to see any newer attributes that were not already present in daylilies from decades past, I think it is easy to choose DLs that are very inexpensive "sure deals" - and just as easy to go for higher-stakes gambles, or "disposable fashion," instead - depending upon one's own inclination to research and choose wisely based upon individual goals and strategies for investing in daylilies' future. nodding

So, kudos to those who thoughtfully learn about, choose from, and contribute to the wider knowledge and record-keeping of our beloved daylilies ... and what better place to watch and help that flourish, and to share such wisdom, than on ATP!
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Mar 14, 2014 10:07 AM (+)]
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Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
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Natalie
Mar 14, 2014 11:31 AM CST
To me, a garden daylily is one that is there for enjoyment, and isn't one that is used for hybridizing. But, all of the ones that I use for hybridizing are somewhat older, but they are just as pretty to me as the newer ones. I have never bought a new intro, and I can't imagine that I ever will. I am not willing to spend the money on them. I have a few newer ones, but they were gifts from very generous friends, or they weren't very expensive to begin with.

At my last house, I had all of my garden daylilies in the front yard, and all of my hybridizing daylilies in the backyard. They were all beautiful to me, but I never used the ones in the front yard for hybridizing. I loved them all equally, but the front yard was for show, and the backyard was where all the dreams lived! When I moved all of my hybridizing daylilies with me to our new home, and left the others, because the house is on the market, and they make the front yard look extra nice. When I decide that I no longer want to use one of my hybridizing daylilies for that purpose, they will be moved to a new location, and will continue on as garden daylilies.
Natalie
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
Seller of Garden Stuff Region: United States of America Pollen collector Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Florida
Birds Butterflies Container Gardener Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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tink3472
Mar 14, 2014 4:28 PM CST
When I say "garden" daylily I mean one that is in my yard/bed/garden for enjoyment and to just look at. At my old place I had 6 beds just for "look at me" plants. Some were just daylilies and other had other things planted as well as daylilies. I also had the hybridizing area with daylilies solely for hybridizing. That's not to say I didn't have duplicates of some of those in the other beds.

When I moved I had no place to have beds/gardens so I had to get rid of those plants I had in those. I have my hybridizing daylilies at another garden I share with another hybridizer and there definitely is no room for "look at me" plants other than the one bed I maintain for flowers to be entered into daylily shows. Once I have a place that I can have gardens again I will plant "garden" daylilies again.
[url=www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com]www.pensacoladaylilyclub.com[/url]
(Zone 5a)
Cat Lover Daylilies Bee Lover Annuals
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cats1
Mar 14, 2014 8:04 PM CST
I've heard it said that Royal Celebration isn't a garden dl because it has trouble opening, but the size of the bloom (12 inches) makes it possibly a hybridizer's plant. I've had it for 4 years and have to admit a lot of times the petals were deformed, twisted and would hang up... Last year though it surprised me by opening right. Smiling Just had to wait 4 years for it. ---And I want to use this thread to thank the hybridizers for the beautiful patterns, teeth, color combinations, and edges that have been introduced in the last few years. I don't have the patience for it, but I'm very glad you guys do! I tip my hat to you.



Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Mar 14, 2014 8:07 PM CST
I took it to mean the difference between garden daylilies and hybridizing daylilies also. Garden daylilies for the beauty of having them in your garden and hybridizing daylilies with the traits the hybridizer is looking to cross.

Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 14, 2014 8:12 PM CST
Ok, so garden daylilies are just pretty much daylilies that are not used for hybridizing! I guess that is a pretty simple answer. Well, I like garden daylilies that are rust resistant, have strong scapes(strong enough the blooms don't droop), have lots of blooms, that have non fading color, multiplies and forms a clump fairly fast, and makes me smile when I look at them. I like a variety of colors, bloom sizes, variety of heights, a variety of bloom shapes and one thing I really love is bright green healthy looking foliage! Other than those few things I am not very picky...any suggestions? Smiling
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
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Natalie
Mar 14, 2014 8:45 PM CST
I wanted to add that like Michele, I also had some duplicate "garden" daylilies in my front yard that I also had in the backyard that I used for hybridizing. They were ones that I really loved, and I wanted to share them with everyone who passed by the house. So, they can be both!

There is no reason not to be picky about your garden daylilies! Mine were always mixed in with many other flowers, but if they didn't do well, they moved to a neighbors house who wasn't as picky as I was.
Natalie
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
Daylilies Garden Photography Hybridizer Butterflies Clematis Dragonflies
Pollen collector Herbs Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Composter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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mistyfog
Mar 14, 2014 9:34 PM CST
Just to add what has already been stated. The garden plants
here are the ones I enjoy seeing from one year to the next.
They are mixed in with other plants in the beds. They also
are plants that can fend for themselves if need be as they
have been selected for hardiness.

The others are strictly for hybridizing, and have their own
location which makes it easier to get from one flower to
another to pollinate. These get extra attention to assist the
plants in forming pods, and not cause undue stress to the plants.
Name: Tina
Where the desert meets the sea (Zone 9b)
Daylilies Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Dog Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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chalyse
Mar 14, 2014 10:35 PM CST
Based on your helpful list of desired traits, here are some that might be worth peeking at. Finding evergreen, high bud count and resistant options is easy with the DL database search. But, since no single source seems to always note clump-versus-rhizome, scape strength, colorfastness and rate of increase ... those are things that, once you know you like the look and other features you want, you can easily use the ATP database and forum to learn about those other characteristics.

People often post a thread to the forums requesting information about a particular cultivar from those who have actually grown and observed it in various garden settings. And, you can also treemail people who have posted their photos in the database just by clicking on their user name and linking to the treemail option. This is helpful even with the published data since, for example, there may be differences between the hybridizer's results and less intensively maintained home garden performance.

You can always check the ATP listing to see if owners have a particular cultivar for trade or sale (not applicable to those in states that have restrictions...) as well as for photos posted by commercial sellers, with their links to use as a starting point in your search. Googling is, of course, another level of exploration for finding more info and sale prices, etc. There are also links to Daylily Forum threads that may have mentioned the cultivar, shows at the bottom of the cultivar's ATP page. Thumbs up :

Roses and Gold (One member who owns the plant lists it as "for trade or sale" under the link "From Our Plant Lists" at the top of the ATP cultivar page)
One member comments on the cultivar page on its long blooming habit and good performance under intense sun
Evergreen, Resistant
36+ buds


Citrix ($12 @ Maryott, or hybrid seeds ~$5 @ Amazingdaylilies)
Evergreen, Resistant
40+ buds


Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow ($10 at Wynn's Daylily Garden)
Evergreen, Resistant
26+ buds


Spacecoast Fancy Dancer ($5 single fan at SomethingNew; one ATP member has listed as a potential Trade)
Evergreen, Resistant
40+ buds
One recommendation in the ATP cultivar comments section


Inner Destiny ($10 at Peace on Earth Gardens - One ATP member has listed as a potential Trade)
Evergreen, Resistant
36+ buds


Insider Trading ($7 @ Cheryl's Daylilies)
Evergreen, Resistant
36+ buds


So Many Stars ($10 @ Bluegrass Daylily Gardens)
Evergreen, Resistant
36+ buds
One comment about clump in ATP cultivar comments section
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of old; seek what those of old sought. — Basho

Daylilies that thrive? click here! Thumbs up
[Last edited by chalyse - Mar 14, 2014 11:38 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #571240 (13)
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Mar 15, 2014 6:02 AM CST
Oh my, those are so beautiful, Tina. Great suggestions.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 15, 2014 6:43 AM CST
chalyse,
Thanks for the list: Not only did you give some great suggestions for plants, but also provided some sources to order them from and even listed some of the main traits. That took some extra effort and I do appreciate it.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Mar 15, 2014 7:19 AM CST
I think a good garden daylily to me is similar to what Michele said. I like to see one that clumps up nicely with tons of scapes and a lot of bloom. I may or may not use it in hybridizing. I have several seedlings that I would call good garden daylilies. They may not be cutting edge but they present a lovely presence in the garden. I have kept several clumps of these seedlings for that reason.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Birds Hummingbirder Butterflies Dog Lover Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
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daylily
Mar 15, 2014 1:38 PM CST
Hemlady said:I think a good garden daylily to me is similar to what Michele said. I like to see one that clumps up nicely with tons of scapes and a lot of bloom. I may or may not use it in hybridizing. I have several seedlings that I would call good garden daylilies. They may not be cutting edge but they present a lovely presence in the garden. I have kept several clumps of these seedlings for that reason.


I agree Thumbs up

MissMimie
Mar 18, 2014 2:18 PM CST
Mr. Seedfork ...nice pictures of your garden from your e-mail .....I don't have anything blooming, yet (wish!)....but here's a look around what I'm trying to grow in the video link below.

It's kind of ugly-looking now but I'm hoping for a few blooms out of those scrawny little plants later on.

I still have a lot of those older ones that just look good wherever you plant them.

They're pretty no matter what the hybridizers come up with next!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=647361355317323&set=vb....
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Mar 18, 2014 2:53 PM CST
No that link does not work either, still having problems.

MissMimie
Mar 18, 2014 2:57 PM CST
try this one...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=647361355317323&l=75018...

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