Plant ID forum: Heisteria; Brazilian rainforest shrub or tree for ID

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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2014 12:42 AM CST
I found this shrub had something mysterious about it, hard to explain why maybe because it looks as if the young looking flowers had already set a berry without having had pistils or stamens or any remains of them visible but of course that cannot be! Rolling my eyes. Maybe the real flowers are inside the young berry like with figs? I searched in that family Moraceae, but got nothing even resembling.
There were also flowers which still had their petals but no berry, but these might have dropped or eaten by birds..
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Edited: I deleted two photos of the fruits that must belong to another shrub with opposite leaves which was entangled with the Heisteria.

[Last edited by bonitin - Aug 17, 2016 2:26 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Apr 17, 2014 6:29 AM CST
It looks very similar to a Brazilian Cherry Myriam, Eugenia brasiliensis so it could be in the same family.

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/content/grumichama.htm

http://www.colecionandofrutas.org/eugeniabrasili.htm

There's a long list of plants from that site!

http://www.colecionandofrutas.org/frutasdomato.htm

The tepals remind me so much of Euonymus europaeus, and when I saw the similar looking leaves of one of the fruiting plants, Salacia elliptica, it's in the same family Celastraceae!

http://www.colecionandofrutas.org/salaciaelliptica.htm

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celastraceae_-_Euonym...

Celastrus is also close ..

http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/FloraData/1001/Images/Celastrac...

I'm leaning towards Myrtaceae, Eugenia does have bracts ..

https://sites.google.com/site/florasbs/myrtaceae/eugenia


Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2014 8:39 AM CST
Thanks Janet! Smiling
Yes, the plant does have a lot of similarity with plants in the Myrtaceae family, there are few with red sepals though, most are white.

I've been 'googling' for images for ages within the family but cannot find any photos in the stage my fertilized flowers were in..so impossible to compare..
A pity I didn't get there earlier to see the true flowers, all the flowers probably had been fertilized already.
I looked up the species occurring in the Rio de Janeiro state, there are 360 species, eeeeeekkkk! Blinking Hilarious!
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 17, 2014 9:02 AM CST
Eugenia, with nearly 1000 species, is one of the most representative genera of Myrtaceae


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102...

Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Mar 20, 2015 1:25 AM CST
I think I've found it Janet, thanks to one of your links you gave on another thread.
Heisteria silvianii, it is pictured on the homepage of Flora SBS!
https://sites.google.com/site/florasbs/
There are two species listed in the Flora do Brazil for that area.
Heisteria perianthomega and Heisteria silvianii.
http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/jabot/listaBrasil/ConsultaP...
Heisteria perianthomega doesn't look like it, nor the flower nor the thicker leaves.


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bamira
Mar 20, 2015 4:21 AM CST
http://www.stri.si.edu/sites/esp/tesp/plant_images_h.htm
http://biogeodb.stri.si.edu/herbarium/species/21380/?fam=Ola...
http://www.plantillustrations.org/taxa.php?id_taxon=6180&lay...
http://www.omnilexica.com/?q=heisteria
http://manuplants.org/species_search.php?Family=Olacaceae
http://eol.org/pages/5608698/media?page=1
I tip my hat to you.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Mar 20, 2015 7:04 AM CST
Hurray! With only two species in the region that isn't so difficult!

There's a set of photos of Heisteria perianthomega on Flickr, which could be correctly named.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/plants_of_russian_in_brazil/se...

Herbarium specimens ..

http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/11608/NBGB_NBGB_BELGIU...

http://fm1.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc/?page=view&id=38743

It's an accepted name ..

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-50167483

Heisteria silvianii ..

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-22900081

There's several photos on the next link at the bottom ..

http://www.ufrgs.br/fitoecologia/florars/open_sp.php?img=266...

https://sites.google.com/site/florasbs/olacaceae/brinco-de-m...

http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Heisteria+...

An understorey plant in the forest, succeeding in moderate to quite dense shade[625]. Tolerant of dry to fairly wet soils[625].
Even when young the plant has a slow rate of growth


It could be either?! Heisteria silvianii looks to be better represented but that isn't conclusive.




Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Mar 20, 2015 7:50 AM CST
Forgot to put a link for the pics of Heistera perianthomega from which I concluded it had to be the other: H. silvianii, Janet.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/plants_of_russian_in_brazil/se...
It seems to me that the petals of the berry don't seem to be as deeply cut in as on my pics..but maybe I'm wrong..
But then on your link of Heisteria silvianii, the petaled berries look like Heisteria perianthomega from my link.. Rolling my eyes.
so I'd better keep it Heistera sp. Thanks!

oh you had found those photos on Flickr too of H. perianthomega ! I had overlooked it!
They are really excellent photos!
[Last edited by bonitin - Mar 20, 2015 7:57 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Mar 20, 2015 8:53 AM CST
I had the site with Heisteria silvianii in my favourites before Myriam, but I hadn't been able to use the site recently other than coming across an entry on google even when trying to get the home page. I searched for the site from the browser address and it works again!

http://www.ufrgs.br/fitoecologia/florars/

http://www.ufrgs.br/fitoecologia/florars/index.php?pag=catal...

In English ..

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http:/...

I searched for Heistera perianthomega on the site but it's not listed.

Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
Image
bonitin
Mar 20, 2015 9:05 AM CST
I cannot get into any of the three links Janet, it says 'webpage not available'.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Mar 20, 2015 9:41 AM CST
The links are all working for me Myriam. Try getting them from google?

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=http:%2F%2Fwww.ufrgs.br%2Ffitoec...

There's an index by family ..

http://www.ufrgs.br/fitoecologia/florars/index.php?pag=acerv...

I couldn't open the link when going to the catalogue in the translated version but the Portuguese version is the same in Latin.
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
Image
bonitin
Mar 21, 2015 1:16 AM CST
I always use Google Search, Janet.
Tried again, the 1st one only gives me a google list.
The 2nd brings me to the home page of the site, I recognize it, I have it in my favourites but don't use it often, it's not very user friendly!
Their pictures of Heisteria silvanii don't really look like mine, the berry petals seem to be more shallowly cut in..or it is just the angle that gives that impression, or they are variable, I don't know. As long as we don't know what details makes them different from each other it is hard to tell..
It is confusing, who's pictures are right and who's are wrongly ID. But at least we're sure it is a Heisteria! Hilarious!
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
Image
bonitin
Aug 17, 2016 2:38 AM CST
I am convinced now that it is Heisteria silvianii. Looking again at the great series of photos from Alex Popovkin on Flickr of Heisteria perianthomega, and it clearly looks different from mine, the flower petals as well as the leaves looking thicker and less elongated than mine..
And there are only these two species recorded in that area.

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