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Apr 27, 2014 11:29 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
The current listing for Agave angustifolia should probably be modified to reflect the selected variety status of the variegated form. Though not generally available (or likely wanted, by comparison) the species is solid green.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
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Apr 27, 2014 11:55 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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I get really confused with species names sometimes. When I did a google search for A. angustifolia the only ones that came up were A. angustifolia var. 'Marginata' which I've heard some refer to as 'Variegata'. I never did find a solid green form.

Catalogue of Life shows angustifolia as a synonym for A. vivipara http://www.catalogueoflife.org...

ATP database shows vivipara as the synonym: Caribbean Agave (Agave angustifolia)
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Apr 27, 2014 2:13 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
My understanding is that Agave vivipara is a separate species with a different growth form, but the name has been misapplied to Agave angustifolia, and is in that sense a synonym when referring to Agave angustifolia.

The blue-green form of Agave angustifolia (known as Maguey Espadin) is apparently the most commonly used Agave to make Mezcal. [Tequila, a specific type of mezcal, is only made from Agave tequiliana weber blue .] Search for Maguey Espadin and you'll find numerous pictures.

Generally the name Agave angustifolia is generally used as if synonymous with the variegated form, but there are numerous references that cite 'Marginata' as a cultivated variety of the species. It even appears that 'variegata' is similar to but visually distinct from 'Marginata'. From what I have read, 'Marginata' is by far the most common form in landscape use.

Some links:

http://books.google.com/books?...

http://keyserver.lucidcentral....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

http://www.elginnursery.com/pr...

http://www.public.asu.edu/~cam...

Still, I'm no expert. I'm only offering a suggestion based on my understanding from my research before adding it to my personal plant database some months ago. I wanted to post here so others could freely add their input.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Last edited by rattlebox Apr 30, 2014 3:37 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 27, 2014 2:44 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
This is a puzzling case. The major databases seem to agree to disagree, listing A. angustifolia as a synonym for A. vivipara and as a synonym for Furcraea tuberosa. In either case, the information in our database is incorrect because no major database recognizes A. angustifolia as an accepted species name. This will take more research.
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Apr 27, 2014 3:05 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I've updated the entries for A. angustifolia and its subspecies to reflect the Catalogue of Life 2014 information for these plants as A. vivipara and its subspecies. According to the Catalogue of Life, A. angustifolia var. marginata and A. angustifolia var. variegata are synonyms for A. vivipara var. vivipara. I'm discounting the Furcraea references for now, because they contradict the A. vivipara references, but it is possible that these agaves eventually will be reclassified as Furcraea species and subspecies. The agave database here appears to have been based on some obsolete information, so I'll go through it today and update any entries that don't agree with the 2014 CoL data.
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Apr 27, 2014 8:33 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Thanks. I'm comfortable with this as a current solution. I'll update my database to reflect this updated information.

I just checked The Plant List, and the data there has changed since I last accessed it, When I added this plant to my personal database a year or two ago, I had researched it fairly thoroughly, and 'Marginata' was simply a color form of A. angustifolia. I should have looked again, but in the back of my mind, I already "knew" what it said Times have changed.

I hate it when what we know is no longer true! In the future I'll check at least The Plant List and The Catalogue of Life before I open my mouth.

Thanks for digging into this can of worms I opened.
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
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Apr 27, 2014 11:25 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Please check the Catalogue of Life first. Although The Plant List supposedly has been updated, the information there is still woefully obsolete in many cases.
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Apr 28, 2014 8:03 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
Good to know!
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
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Apr 29, 2014 7:01 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
@Zuzu,

This is curious.

I was just looking at the Catalogue of Life entry for Agave angustifolia and it shows A. angustifolia as a synonym for A. vivipara, as you have already mentioned above:
http://www.catalogueoflife.org...

The Catalogue of Life gives KEW World Checklist of Selected Plant Families as the source database.

But when I go to KEW WCSP, that database lists Agave angustifolia as an =accepted= name:
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsear...

Furthermore, KEW WCSP also lists Agave vivipara as an accepted name:
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsear...

Furcraea tuberosa is also listed as an accepted name, but with no reference to Agave angustifolia or A. vivipara:
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsear...

And here I thought this was temporarily settled. Blinking

Ron
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
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Apr 29, 2014 7:15 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
The problem with checking Kew is that we have no idea when that information was updated. The most recent date on their A. angustifolia entry is 1812. The most recent date on the CoL entry, on the other hand, is April 28, 2014 -- in other words, yesterday.

http://www.catalogueoflife.org...
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Apr 29, 2014 10:43 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
[post deleted by me]
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett
Last edited by rattlebox May 20, 2014 6:32 PM Icon for preview
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Nov 18, 2014 7:14 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
In case anyone is still following this old thread and this old controversy, I can report that there has been another change: A. angustifolia and A. vivipara are now acknowledged by the COL to be two separate species. Both names are now acceptable species names. This will take a little tinkering with the Agave section of the database, but I'll finish it up sometime tonight.
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