Clematis forum: ID help please

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Name: Linda
Tennessee (Zone 7a)
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chickhill
May 2, 2014 9:12 PM CST
can't remember her name Confused
Any ideals? I tip my hat to you.
Thumb of 2014-05-03/chickhill/146c4b

Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
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pirl
May 3, 2014 6:50 AM CST
Bourbon? Vino? Ruutel? Do any of those names ring a bell?
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
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dirtdorphins
May 20, 2014 3:23 PM CST
I need help, too.

Thumb of 2014-05-20/dirtdorphins/9b1ee0 Thumb of 2014-05-20/dirtdorphins/0ba3b5 Thumb of 2014-05-20/dirtdorphins/bb6b6d

Both large-flowered, early types; purchased at a fall clearance sale with no tags.
They both fade dramatically in the sun and with age. These are freshly opened.

Thanks,
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 20, 2014 7:06 PM CST
The first one might be Bee's Jubilee.

The second one has me puzzled. It certainly is a gorgeous color. If I think of any possible names I'll let you know.

I doubt it's Will Goodwin but take a look and see what you think:
https://www.google.com/search?q=will+goodwin+clematis&biw=18...
Name: Annette
Duluth, Ga (Zone 7a)
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Cem9165
May 20, 2014 8:25 PM CST
Could the 2nd picture be Ramona?

Thumb of 2014-05-21/Cem9165/819164

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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
May 20, 2014 10:15 PM CST

Moderator

DD, my first thought for the first one was Clematis (Clematis 'Nelly Moser') because of the red anthers. While similar to Bee's Jubilee, it's anthers have brown tips. The second one can't be Ramona as it has red tipped anthers unlike your white anthers.

Will Goodwin is a paler color, more lavender and it has wavy ruffled edges, very unique.
Clematis (Clematis 'Will Goodwin')

It kind of reminds me of Clematis (Clematis 'Lady Betty Balfour')
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Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
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dirtdorphins
May 20, 2014 10:56 PM CST
Hmmm...
The pinkish one with the darker bar has reddish tipped anthers and seems much more pointy than the Bees I've seen pics of. I was thinking possibly 'Carnaby' or 'Lincoln Star' --but just guessing. Low flowers are very large--8+ in--while the higher ones are smaller. It fades to kind of a silvery white with a pale pink essence of the bar in sun. I'll try to get another pic of that, tomorrow, maybe.

The bluish-purple one fades to more of a purple with a paler bar if I remember correctly, and the middle parts start yellowish and turn white. No ruffles that I recall either.
I really don't have a good guess what it could be, but it can't be Ramona. I'll also get some more pics of it too.

I have a third NOID too, sold to me as "the purple one"--
Thumb of 2014-05-21/dirtdorphins/fa4d88
It isn't quite ready for pics yet but here is one anyway. It blooms early and all summer. And it does not have any climbing/grasping capabilities at all.
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Photography Bee Lover Region: Utah Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dirtdorphins
May 20, 2014 11:02 PM CST
whoops--cross posted there Sue because I was off doing something else literally mid post.
But I see that you see what I see Hilarious!
I was kind of hoping for Nelly--does she fade out?

and we might have a winner with Lady Betty...let's see what it does in a few days...
[Last edited by dirtdorphins - May 20, 2014 11:04 PM (+)]
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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
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Calif_Sue
May 20, 2014 11:14 PM CST

Moderator

I don't grow Nelly so not sure of the fading.

Your new one reminds me of either Clematis (Clematis 'Jackmanii') or Clematis (Clematis 'Jackmanii Superba')
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Name: Linda
Tennessee (Zone 7a)
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chickhill
May 20, 2014 11:51 PM CST
Thanks for the difference in anthers calif-sue, I tip my hat to you. if I understand Ramona has red anthers. Thank You!
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
Cottage Gardener Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Birds
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Calif_Sue
May 21, 2014 12:03 AM CST

Moderator

@chickhill, pirl had come up with 3 suggestions back on the 3rd, did any of them ring a bell for your Noid one?
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Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
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dirtdorphins
May 21, 2014 12:19 AM CST
Indeed. I have always pretended that this third one is Jackmanii because that seemed like what it should be as "the purple one".
But I had one that I bought tagged as Jackmannii, several years ago in another state, and that one actually climbed and wrapped its leaves around things, and bloomed a ton. This one shoots straight up, won't wrap around anything, unwraps itself when I try to assist, and falls over and grows straight down wherever I tie it. Weird. It also gets bigger flowers.
So anyway--they seem quite different to me, and I am inclined to think that this one is not what I knew as Jackmanni. It could be that the other one was something else though Shrug!
Name: Annette
Duluth, Ga (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Birds Tropicals Hummingbirder Bulbs Region: Georgia
Lilies Irises Peonies Clematis Plumerias Roses
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Cem9165
May 21, 2014 1:27 AM CST
Could the "purple one" be Durandii, which is a non-vining clematis, and does bloom all summer?
"Aspire to inspire before you expire"

author unknown
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Photography Bee Lover Region: Utah Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dirtdorphins
May 21, 2014 7:54 AM CST
Yes, I think it really could be...I have some purchased as Durandii, much younger plants...will compare.

I see that Paul commented Nelly Moser is widely grown and fades--perhaps it is most likely that the left over pink one I picked up is that.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 21, 2014 8:00 AM CST
Nelly Moser does fade but remains pretty, just not as colorful.
Thumb of 2014-05-21/pirl/df32ee

Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
Cottage Gardener Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Birds
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Calif_Sue
May 21, 2014 8:20 AM CST

Moderator

Clematis (Clematis durandii) sure sounds like the one based on the comments in the entry too!
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Hand sewn wares and vintage finds in my Etsy store. Summer Song Cottage
Name: Linda
Tennessee (Zone 7a)
Container Gardener Ferns Enjoys or suffers hot summers Canning and food preservation Cactus and Succulents Keeper of Poultry
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chickhill
May 21, 2014 8:18 PM CST
Thank you ladies for your input. Group hug Angel
I have John Paul ll (Jan Pawel ll) that has the pink stripe. So far no names ringing bell except for Ramona on the blue.
Years ago (early 90's) here in Tenn. when Jackmanii became wildly popular my velvety fushia was to. Everyone had them running up their mailboxes.
Will keep checking in and other databases also.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 21, 2014 8:27 PM CST
It's a challenge but it seems you're enjoying it. I hope so!
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Photography Bee Lover Region: Utah Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
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dirtdorphins
May 21, 2014 9:34 PM CST
Sorry Linda,
I didn't mean to hijack the velvety-fushia ID. I don't dare take a guess, but I will say that I recall Etoile Violette being very present all over the place back in the day. I saw it as kind of a fushia-purple??

Regarding my pink striped one,
Here are a couple pics taken when I got home tonight. The first baked in the sun all day. The second had more shade hiding on the ground.
Thumb of 2014-05-22/dirtdorphins/5a97de Thumb of 2014-05-22/dirtdorphins/0d7de1

What do you all think? Can I call her Nelly Moser?

Regarding "the purple one",
very interesting...maybe there are different versions of Durandii. It would seem that some have a more gappy appearance, with narrower tepals, and some are not so gappy looking, with wider tepals and more tepals. I read that they can have five or six. My possible Durandii that is blooming now has flowers with four, five, and six tepals without the gappy appearance, more like this picture

Here are a couple pics from tonight, pardon the background
Thumb of 2014-05-22/dirtdorphins/48d4c3 Thumb of 2014-05-22/dirtdorphins/4d6f10
Whereas the ones that I purchased as Durandii, were certainly resembling the gappy type last year. So far this season, they aren't even close to blooming. Could be their immaturity and location, or perhaps they are a later blooming gappy type?

Anyway, I think the key to the ID on this one is the fact that it doesn't climb. I'll probably still call it the purple one...

Name: Linda
Tennessee (Zone 7a)
Container Gardener Ferns Enjoys or suffers hot summers Canning and food preservation Cactus and Succulents Keeper of Poultry
Garden Art Butterflies Sempervivums Sedums Hummingbirder Hostas
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chickhill
May 22, 2014 7:42 AM CST
dirtdorphins you are OK Thumbs up I am here to learn, if you had not of posted I would not have seen Ramona to jog my memory. Thank You!
I like the deep purple.

pirl, no to vino & bourbon, but ruutel looks very likely. I tip my hat to you. Group hug Angel

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