Plant Database forum: Change to the plant name's display for certain genera

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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 1:01 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Some plants have latin names that match their common name, for example Cannas and Hostas. In those cases, their name is displayed in the database like this:

Hosta (Hosta 'Straight Flush')

I always thought it looked a little silly to repeat the name twice like that, so I updated the database today to display just the regular name in the cases of plants where the latin name isn't really necessary.

I have done this for the following plants:

Garlic
Caladiums
Cannas
Daylilies
Watermelons
Clematis
Crocosmia
Cucumbers
Dahlias
Carrots
Fuchsias
Hostas
Plumeria
Tulips
Roses

If you want me to back out this change on any particular plants, let me know and I'll be glad to do it. And if there are any others that you'd like me to give this treatment to, just let me know.
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
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plantladylin
May 5, 2014 1:03 PM CST
I like it! Thumbs up
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Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 1:37 PM CST
Aren't roses all Rosa something, and garlic Allium? Cukes Cucumis? Perhaps I am not 'getting' what the change is?
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 1:40 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Instead of Hosta (Hosta 'Straight Flush')

It is now

Hosta 'Straight Flush'


Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
May 5, 2014 1:49 PM CST

Plants Admin

One thing Dave. The species name is no longer displayed.

ex. Crocosmia (Crocosmia x crocosmiiflora 'A.E. Amos'). This is a Crocosmia x crocosmiiflora.

Maybe you could display the Latin name even if there are no synonyms.

...or would that defeat the purpose?
Evan
[Last edited by eclayne - May 5, 2014 1:51 PM (+)]
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Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 1:55 PM CST
I think the first example is more clear, but that could just be because it is what I am accustomed to seeing. Here's my layperson interpretion of the first example: The common name is hosta. The botanical name is also hosta and apparently does not divide into separate species. The cultivar name is Straight Flush. This does not seem repetitious to me, but rather more accurate.

Will roses now be rose or rosa? No allium for garlic?

Or, am I getting confused because each of these large groups actually has their own specific database, and that information is at a different level?
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 2:10 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

eclayne said:One thing Dave. The species name is no longer displayed.

ex. Crocosmia (Crocosmia x crocosmiiflora 'A.E. Amos'). This is a Crocosmia x crocosmiiflora.

Maybe you could display the Latin name even if there are no synonyms.

...or would that defeat the purpose?


I can do that.

Alternatively, I can not give it the custom simplified display if a species is present.

Deb, roses are now Rose 'Cultivar Name' and garlic is Garlic 'Cultivar Name'

I'm not married to any of this and would be glad to customize this however we like. I just want it to look nice. Smiling
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 2:11 PM CST
Still trying to wrap* my head around this change. I experimented by adding the garlic 'Burgundy' to My List to see where it would locate itself. It properly is listed between ladies mantle (Alchemilla mollis) and chives (Allium schoenoprasum) rather than somewhere in the Gs, but the listed entry is only identified as Garlic 'Burgundy' with no indication that is it an Allium. Seems confusing to me.

*Corrected to read wrap instead of warp - perhaps my misspelling was more accurate...ha ha
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 2:24 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Ahh, I see now. When appearing inside a list, it's still ordering by genus, but since the genus is not being displayed it appears out of order. Hmm. We need a solution for that.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 2:26 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

What if the garlics appeared with the "G" plants instead of the A plants?

So in the case of lists with multiple different genera, the sort would be natural instead of by genus.
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 2:46 PM CST
For consistency, I think all plants should remain sorted by their botanical name in all lists. If the lists arbitrarily switched from sorting by the botanical name for most and the common name for some, it would seem to just become a mish-mash. The garlics should list with the other alliums, etc.

Another thing that struck out at me when scrolling through My List is the simplification of certain genera looks (to me) like we don't know what the botanical name is. An example is the crocosmias. Since the common and genus name are the same, you have eliminated the italic genus name. When quickly scrolling down, that jumped out at me as missing information.

I think consistency and accuracy is more important than the perception of redundancy - edited to add: Allium sativum 'Burgundy' (Garlic) conveys more accurate and useful information to me than Garlic 'Burgundy'
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
[Last edited by Bonehead - May 5, 2014 2:56 PM (+)]
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
May 5, 2014 2:55 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Bonehead said:I think consistency and accuracy is more important than the perception of redundancy.


That's a good point.

We'll leave it alone for now and if nobody says anything to the contrary I'll revert my changes in the morning. Thumbs up
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 2:57 PM CST
We cross posted. I'd wait and see what others think. Always good to have a discussion I think.
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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
May 5, 2014 2:58 PM CST
Im with bone head on this one.
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
May 5, 2014 3:13 PM CST
@Dave How about Hoya plants, can those entries be edited/changed so they don't repeat twice?

http://garden.org/plants/browse/plants/genus/Hoya/

What about name consistency too? Right now some are listed with the common name of Wax Plant while others just say Hoya, example:

Wax Plant (Hoya acuminata)
Hoya (Hoya acuta)
Wax Plant (Hoya australis)
Hoya (Hoya brevialata)
Wax Plant (Hoya buotii)
Hoya (Hoya calycina)
Hoya (Hoya camphorifolia)
Wax Plant (Hoya carnosa)
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
May 5, 2014 3:15 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Maybe we do this just for plants who have a genus with no species, and where the genus is the same or almost the same as the common name (Hosta, Hoya, Rosa...)
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Horntoad
May 5, 2014 4:23 PM CST
I think I am with Deb on this one. Consistency is more important the the perceived redundancy.
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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
May 5, 2014 4:27 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

Alright, not all my ideas pan out. Green Grin! I'm putting it back the way it was. Smiling
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
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Bonehead
May 5, 2014 5:26 PM CST
@plantladylin, it's my understanding that the common name is somewhat flexible, similar to how the thumbnail photo is chosen - either the first entry or the one with the most thumbs will show up on lists. You may be able to change those yourself by giving a thumbs up to your preferred common name. I was mystified by Abies grandis (Grand Fir) being called Great Fir (which I had never heard of) until I realized I could 'sway' that by simply thumbing the Grand Fir common name.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
May 8, 2014 7:19 AM CST
I agree fully with Deb! Smiling

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