Lilies forum: Color breaking, definitely a virus?

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Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Jul 4, 2014 12:43 PM CST
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These are first year blooms of bulbs from a reputable company. Before I let them know, do you think these are virused? You could see the color break developing in the reverse so I don't think it's a heat thing. The first one is purple prince. The other thing that is weird is that the second one is from a two stemmed (or dividing) bulb. One stem is beautiful and the other shows symptoms. Is it weird that one stem appears virused and the other doesn't? The first two pics show the "healthy" stem and the last is the virused one.

Kiss of Fire

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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Jul 4, 2014 7:15 PM CST
That Purple Prince certainly is scary, but it's so unusually patterned that I would post on the Yahoo lilium group and see what you get there. Just remember to weigh the answers according to their source.

Yes it would be very possible for one stem of a bulb originating from the same plant to be virused and one not. Depending on the type of lily, often divided bulbs will actually break apart while still undisturbed in the soil, and be physically separated. Moreover, a virus does not instantly invade all parts of the plant. There is a time lapse. If one stem was infected one year, you may find that the unaffected stem will be affected next year or the year after. Certainly, viruses travel through growing tissue much more rapidly than not so active tissue, like a basal plate.
(Zone 8b)
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sallysmom
Jul 5, 2014 6:54 AM CST
I think you can safely say that is virus. Even though we may buy them from a "reputable" grower, they may have virus in some stock and not know it.
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Moby
Jul 5, 2014 8:52 AM CST
That is indeed some very strange patterning, but virus isn't my first thought on either of them. Could the KOF have been hit with overspray from something? The stippling is so fine. Hmm...

If the bulbs came from a reputable grower, then I'd send pics and ask 'what is wrong' with them rather than mentioning virus. Let them come up with an answer for you. By all means, post them on the lilium group and see what they say.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
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pardalinum
Jul 5, 2014 1:40 PM CST

Moderator

Here is my KOF today. It will be gone before the day is over. I paid too much for this lousy performance. Those cheesecake vendor photos were much too enticing. Next time I see a super cheesecake photo of an amazing new Dutch introduction I'm going to leave my computer and go do something else for a while until my head clears and rationality returns.

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Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Moby
Jul 5, 2014 11:42 PM CST
Man, that got hit with the ugly stick ~ several times. Thumbs down
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jul 5, 2014 11:53 PM CST

Moderator

I dug it out and wadded it up as small as I could and stuffed it in the trash. In my minds eye I conjure up a scene at the dump... a big bulldozer pushing it along while the flies and seagulls hover nearby...

Seriously, it looks like virus and something else with all those buds blasted. The lilies nearby look ok, almost too ok:

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Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Moby
Jul 6, 2014 7:50 AM CST
pardalinum said:I dug it out and wadded it up as small as I could and stuffed it in the trash. In my minds eye I conjure up a scene at the dump... a big bulldozer pushing it along while the flies and seagulls hover nearby...


Rolling on the floor laughing

Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Celeste
Northernmost and largest state (Zone 5a)
The Vacation Land!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Region: Northeast US Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lilies
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pixie62560
Jul 30, 2014 6:38 AM CST
Glad to see this thread...last year I received and planted a beautiful bulb called Fujian.


There are no tulips in this bed, never has been. There is only 2 other lilies in this bed both came with Fujian from the same supplier and none are next to each other. This is what Fujian looks like this year....every bloom. Leaves are not streaked, don't understand it!




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"A GARDEN IS A LITTLE PATCH OF HEAVEN ON EARTH"
Name: Becky
WI
Charter ATP Member Echinacea I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies Irises Lilies
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mattsmom
Jul 30, 2014 11:10 AM CST
I'd message Ramona. She has been very helpful to me when I have questions, @pixie62560! If she doesn't know, she will know who to ask!
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Jul 30, 2014 12:17 PM CST
First of all, lilium does not have to be near tulips to get the so-called TBV. The virus that causes color breaking in lilium is more accurately called Lily Mottling Virus or LMoV. It was commonly referred to as TBV because it resembled the color breaking of tulips. Also, tulips cannot catch the color breaking virus (LMoV) from infected lilies. If the color breaking shows all the way through on the underside (reverse), then it is infected with LMoV. Exactly how it became infected is anybody's guess. It may have been infected upstream from whoever your source may have obtained it from. Often times, if growing conditions are ideal and a lily is otherwise healthy and in good condition, it may not show symptoms of any virus. But the minute some growing condition becomes less that ideal or the lily becomes stressed, the symptoms show up.

The safest and easiest solution is to dispose of the infected plant before some vector transfers the virus to your other lilies. However, if you want to chose to 'wait and see' if it shows this same condition next year, then move it a considerable distance away as biting insects, both above and below ground, nibbling bunnies and rodents can transfer the virus. Be careful that you, yourself, don't transfer the virus through handling of this plant as humans are the biggest vector of all.
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
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magnolialover
Jul 30, 2014 7:40 PM CST

Moderator

I will add saying that I have had several new pink OT varieties show this virus in the first year. I gave them a year to shape up, due to advice received, but there is no way I will keep what looks to be the Kiss Of Death in my garden. I have no time or energy for it, nor do I need it wreaking havoc with the rest of my garden. A lot of the newer OT hybrids coming out not only seem un-gardentested, but are poor overall garden quality. Pretty in pictures, but not made to last in the yard. some of them literally have blooms that melt in high heat. Thumbs down
Tracey
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jul 30, 2014 7:46 PM CST

Moderator

Kiss of Death, the new name for Kiss of Fire...
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Jul 30, 2014 8:15 PM CST
Well Tracey, you called it exactly the way I see it, too. There is just so much of this with the new OTs. They don't seem at all virus resistant or virus tolerant. Almost like they've never been tested for hardiness, as you say. It's troubling! I was thinking this afternoon how lucky and happy I am with Trumpets and Aurelians and the fact that most of my stuff is home grown from seed on top of that.
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jul 30, 2014 8:39 PM CST

Moderator

Well, if they are developed for use as cut flowers they don't have to be hardy. Once the bulb has produced the stem that is used for cut flower it is tossed in the compost and not used again. At least that is how the big companies like Oregon Flowers does it. Probably cheaper to not have to coddle and protect it in order to get another use out of it.
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
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bearsearch
Jul 30, 2014 9:04 PM CST
pardalinum said:Kiss of Death, the new name for Kiss of Fire...


I had bought one in the spring last year and it was very nice, flowered well and I was happy with it. I bought three more in the fall last year. This year the spring planted one never returned and two of the three fall planted ones are virused. None of the three are more than 18 inches tall and all are pale sickly yellow green. Won't be buying them again and I did get a credit for all four.
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jul 30, 2014 9:57 PM CST

Moderator

Thanks for the info Brian. Seems like this one should be pulled from the market with a report like that.
Name: Brian
Ontario Canada (Zone 5b)
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bearsearch
Jul 31, 2014 5:41 AM CST
It should be Connie but it's a shame really because last summer I was quite pleased with the look and colour of this lily. Here's a couple pics from this year.
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Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Joebass
Aug 15, 2014 4:22 PM CST

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Speciosum rubrum
Looks like this could be virused as well
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
Aug 15, 2014 5:45 PM CST
No, I don't think so. The breaks are quite gentle and the leaves look healthy. Now, if you tell me however, that this plant has been right next to another with TBV, then I might be more apt to agree, but otherwise I'm inclined to believe this one is environmental induced. Smiling

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